What does this passage mean?

[Shilohsfoal]

28 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

the overcomers!

Yeap

Through the majority of the people in Israel worship the beast,there is a remnant who overcome and will reign with Christ over the nations.

If I'm correct,their persecution will begin  a couple more years from now.Netayahu is presently wanting to change laws and is in need of the second beast because things are not looking well for the IDF.A situation that will only get worse as time passes.

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/military-service-exemption-bill-threatens-to-further-divide-israel/

The little horn is in need of a host.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Last Daze]

18 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

People are not killed for refusing the mark.  They are killed for testifying of Christ 

I agree.  Revelation 12 flows right into 13 and should be read as one continuous account. At the end of Rev 12, the dragon sets off to wage war against those who "keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."  Rev 13 describes how that takes place using the mark and the image. 

The image is a code of conduct that worships the man of sin as God.  The mark is just a means of expediting the implementation of the image.  It is the image that must be obeyed under the penalty of death.

Refusing to worship the image is a testimony of Christ's lordship in one's life.  I'm sure there will also be verbal testimony as well.

[ChristB4us]

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So now your saying you don't believe this message is for the Apostles but for someone else altogether which is what I've been saying all along.

The message is given to the apostles to write but the message is for someone else.Someone who will endure till the end which has not come yet.You might argue the end has come but it hasn't.

This is message for those who endure through the tribulation.

 

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

²¹ And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

²² And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

²³ But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

The 12 apostles are not the only ones to be sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel and the 12 apostles are not around till the end.

Someone else is.

 

Although Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not shared in the other 4 gospels that I recollect as, this was Jesus sending His 12 disciples out to all the cities of Israel and when they had accomplish that, He will come for them in continuing His ministry.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not the same as the future prophetic account that Jesus is giving in Matthew 24th chapter.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is what Jesus told them when He had sent them out to preach the kingdom of heaven to all the cities of Israel.  While they are doing that, He is not with them as they were separated in accomplishing that task, but he said He will be with them again when they get done.

Therefore when they got done preaching the kingdom of heaven was at hand in all the cities of Israel, they would have seen how some that believe, were persecuted.

That is how I am applying His words to mean and not some future event yet to come about in Matthew 24th chapter because what He had said in Matthew 10's chapter had already occurred since He regathered them again to continue with Him in ministry.

Maybe you are thinking that Jesus was saying this without actually sending them out afterwards to accomplish that but that is how I read that chapter to mean since He gave them the power and that the Spirit of the Father would speak through them to accomplish that very task in His days when He was on earth.

Remember, Judas Iscariot was there when He did this and yet Judas Iscariot was not there at Pentecost for you to apply that as some future event they had not performed yet.  Jesus had actually sent His disciples out when He was on earth to do those things in Matthew 10th chapter before regathering with them to continue His eventual  journey to the cross. 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I agree.  Revelation 12 flows right into 13 and should be read as one continuous account. At the end of Rev 12, the dragon sets off to wage war against those who "keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."  Rev 13 describes how that takes place using the mark and the image. 

The image is a code of conduct that worships the man of sin as God.  The mark is just a means of expediting the implementation of the image.  It is the image that must be obeyed under the penalty of death.

Refusing to worship the image is a testimony of Christ's lordship in one's life.  I'm sure there will also be verbal testimony as well.

I think the Israeli government will mark it's people for the collection of taxes.Thats the purpose for their going cashless.

I'd agree about revelation 12 and would like to say that it was the king of Judea who tried to kill Christ when he was born.

 

[ChristB4us]

15 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I think the Israeli government will mark it's people for the collection of taxes.Thats the purpose for their going cashless.

I'd agree about revelation 12 and would like to say that it was the king of Judea who tried to kill Christ when he was born.

Yet a remnant shall be saved and so some Jews will not be taking the mark to buy & sell since they will be going to the lake of fire no matter what if they did, and so halfway through the great tribulation when the son of perdition is exposed, the unmarked Jews will be on the run to escape.  

The beast will need to handle problems in the south ( Africa? ), then the north ( Russia ?) and then to the East ( China? ) as his message of rule is by the power of his might by way of the military and its arsenals.

Probably why and how he got the world's armies marching towards Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation as the King of kings will be coming to rescue that city.

Obviously the beast with all those troubles to be elsewhere with his military campaign to bring other nations under his subjection, is how the Jews found themselves back in Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation needing Jesus Christ to rescue them as their future King of kings.

[Revelation Man]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:10 PM, Last Daze said:

And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold.  But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved.  Matthew 24:12-13

Specifically, endures what?  And to what end?

This is basic stuff, but only when  one understand the context of Matt. 24:4-14 overall, and specifically verses 7 & 8 are only adding in a "BIGGER PICTURE" for the Disciples Survival Guide given here by Jesus, that is all verses 4-14 is. Take out verses 7 & 8 and discount them in full, because Jesus is only tryin g to reenforce what he stated in verse 6, that the end is not yet, but is by and by or much, much, much later on, thus he throws out an events in an extrapolated manner, and shows how things will get worse, and worse, and worse, gradually like a women giving birth. 

So, verses 4-6 is Jesus. basically telling his disciples not to come rushing back to Jerusalem in order to fight for him, because there will be false christ (in 70 AD) whom the Pharisees etc., put forth to save Israel from the Fourth Beast of Rome. Jesus says the 70th week end is NOT NOW, don't fall for it, stay away....THEN....He gives then the examples, offhandedly, which proves the end or 70th week events are in a distant future, that is all verses 7 & 8 is meant to do, it shows in no way end time events in verses 4-14, nor can it. 

Then Jesus is about to tell each Disciple the fate of their lives, all except John  will become a Martyr or murdered for the Gospels sake, Jesus does this for two reasons, so they will have plenty of time to get ready, via faith and prayer, for these events, and so they can set an example for the Church, chose Jesus/Life over the world under all circumstances, Amen. 

So, who killed the Disciples? It was not Fake or False Christians, these "False Prophets" mentioned here are the ones that had the Disciples, and later on many, many Christians killed, these were the prophets of their false gods, Jupiter, Zeus etc. etc. they are the ones tat had the Disciples killed. Rea Johnathan Chan's book "Return of the GODS" this is well documented. Hence, these were not END TIME issues they had to endure, but these were crises the Disciples had to endure during their lifetimes, that is why Jesus says you must endure until the end [of your lives], Judas fell, Jesus is forewarning them so the will not fail as Judas did.

Then as we get to verse 14 we see that when the Gospel is preached unto the WHOLE WORLD, then we will see the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church.

Nothing in verses 4-14 is about the 70th week end times, only in verse 15 do we get to the 70th week end times. 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:39 PM, ChristB4us said:

Although Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not shared in the other 4 gospels that I recollect as, this was Jesus sending His 12 disciples out to all the cities of Israel and when they had accomplish that, He will come for them in continuing His ministry.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not the same as the future prophetic account that Jesus is giving in Matthew 24th chapter.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is what Jesus told them when He had sent them out to preach the kingdom of heaven to all the cities of Israel.  While they are doing that, He is not with them as they were separated in accomplishing that task, but he said He will be with them again when they get done.

Therefore when they got done preaching the kingdom of heaven was at hand in all the cities of Israel, they would have seen how some that believe, were persecuted.

That is how I am applying His words to mean and not some future event yet to come about in Matthew 24th chapter because what He had said in Matthew 10's chapter had already occurred since He regathered them again to continue with Him in ministry.

Maybe you are thinking that Jesus was saying this without actually sending them out afterwards to accomplish that but that is how I read that chapter to mean since He gave them the power and that the Spirit of the Father would speak through them to accomplish that very task in His days when He was on earth.

Remember, Judas Iscariot was there when He did this and yet Judas Iscariot was not there at Pentecost for you to apply that as some future event they had not performed yet.  Jesus had actually sent His disciples out when He was on earth to do those things in Matthew 10th chapter before regathering with them to continue His eventual  journey to the cross. 

No,this is not about the apostles seeing other people being persecuted.

Jesus says the people that he is sending will be persecuted.

 

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

It the people who are testifying of Jesus who are being persecuted.Not the people they are testifying to.

Same as revelation 20

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

ITs the people who are told to preach that the kingdom of heaven is at hand that are persecuted.Not the people who hear them.

Daniel 11:33

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

 

It's those who are testifying of Christ and the word of God who are persecuted.Not the people they are testifying too.

[Shilohsfoal]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:39 PM, ChristB4us said:

Although Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not shared in the other 4 gospels that I recollect as, this was Jesus sending His 12 disciples out to all the cities of Israel and when they had accomplish that, He will come for them in continuing His ministry.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is not the same as the future prophetic account that Jesus is giving in Matthew 24th chapter.

Matthew's account in chapter 10 is what Jesus told them when He had sent them out to preach the kingdom of heaven to all the cities of Israel.  While they are doing that, He is not with them as they were separated in accomplishing that task, but he said He will be with them again when they get done.

Therefore when they got done preaching the kingdom of heaven was at hand in all the cities of Israel, they would have seen how some that believe, were persecuted.

That is how I am applying His words to mean and not some future event yet to come about in Matthew 24th chapter because what He had said in Matthew 10's chapter had already occurred since He regathered them again to continue with Him in ministry.

Maybe you are thinking that Jesus was saying this without actually sending them out afterwards to accomplish that but that is how I read that chapter to mean since He gave them the power and that the Spirit of the Father would speak through them to accomplish that very task in His days when He was on earth.

Remember, Judas Iscariot was there when He did this and yet Judas Iscariot was not there at Pentecost for you to apply that as some future event they had not performed yet.  Jesus had actually sent His disciples out when He was on earth to do those things in Matthew 10th chapter before regathering with them to continue His eventual  journey to the cross. 

And yes,Mathews account is found in another gospel.Compare Jesus words.

 

Luke 21

¹² But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

¹³ And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

¹⁴ Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

¹⁵ For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

¹⁶ And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

¹⁷ And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

 

Mathew 10

 

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

²¹ And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

²² And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:36 AM, ChristB4us said:

Yet a remnant shall be saved and so some Jews will not be taking the mark to buy & sell since they will be going to the lake of fire no matter what if they did, and so halfway through the great tribulation when the son of perdition is exposed, the unmarked Jews will be on the run to escape.  

The beast will need to handle problems in the south ( Africa? ), then the north ( Russia ?) and then to the East ( China? ) as his message of rule is by the power of his might by way of the military and its arsenals.

Probably why and how he got the world's armies marching towards Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation as the King of kings will be coming to rescue that city.

Obviously the beast with all those troubles to be elsewhere with his military campaign to bring other nations under his subjection, is how the Jews found themselves back in Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation needing Jesus Christ to rescue them as their future King of kings.

You seem to have the persecution of the saints in Israel mixed up with the destruction of the middle east.

The tribulation of the saints in Israel begins when the Son of perdition gives the Israeli goverment  an army that occupies Israel on the Israeli governments behalf.The daily sacrifice is abolished at this time.

The great tribulation takes place 1290 after the daily sacrifice is abolished when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem causing jerusalem to be desolate.Jerusalem will probably look worse that Hiroshima after the abomination was placed in that city.

That is when there is great tribulation and the people in Judea flee in fear for their lives.It is at that time that the saints are delivered.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

[ChristB4us]

37 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No,this is not about the apostles seeing other people being persecuted.

Jesus says the people that he is sending will be persecuted.

 

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

It the people who are testifying of Jesus who are being persecuted.Not the people they are testifying to.

Same as revelation 20

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

ITs the people who are told to preach that the kingdom of heaven is at hand that are persecuted.Not the people who hear them.

Daniel 11:33

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

 

It's those who are testifying of Christ and the word of God who are persecuted.Not the people they are testifying too.

I am sure that His disciples were persecuted as well and not just those that listened and believed.