Test the Spirits,can Christians be deceived? ( Lets study this together with situations from our own life..

[Hopefully]

I have been deceived. Now that that’s over I believe it was great practice and I learned alot. I feel more prepared to not let it happen again. 

[JohnD]

Human beings can be deceived. Even Christian human beings. And since we are the target of the evil one and his compliment of entirely one third of the angels who fell with him... aside from the simple fact we believe in Jesus Christ... we are the most subjected to deception.

It is true that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It is also true that we are still fallen / sin natured human beings until we die (or the LORD returns). We are a new creation in Christ (that we are saved and no longer condemned, that we have access to God through the indwelling Holy Spirit and have options we did not have before we believed in Jesus). But how often do we even consult the Holy Spirit living within us?

How intently do we study the Word of God to confirm we even believe in the genuine Jesus (and not a counterfeit Christ)?

How often do we simply take another human being's word for it? Or group of human beings who are just as prone to deception as any of us are...

The fact of the matter is... especially in this fallen world and given our fallen natures... there is only one way to even get to the truth (the actual truth and not what deceitful and deceived man calls the truth): the Holy Spirit of God.

John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 John 4:1 (the text the Opening Post Title refers to) is not just about testing "spirits" per se, but in testing all things by testing even what we perceive as the Holy Spirit. Not because he is capricious, but because we are so gullible and vulnerable to deception.  And the only way to test the spirits to see if what we believe in the Holy Spirit guiding us is by the scriptures (Acts 17:11).

 

[JohnD]

2 Peter 1:20-21 (No one but the Holy Spirit is to interpret scripture)

1 John 4:1 (test all things / all spirits to be certain the actual Holy Spirit is guiding you)

Acts 17:11 (this is how you test the spirits)

Proverbs 25:2 (there is a greater depth and meaning to scripture than sinful man can get on his own)

Isaiah 28:9-13 (describes the method in which this depth and meaning are given)

There are more passages of scripture, but these be what I refer to as the Keys to the Kingdom.

The Holy Spirit is right smack dab in the middle of it all.

And it's all about Jesus who gave his all to save us.

[kwikphilly]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:05 AM, Alive said:

About 20 years ago or so, the Lord prepared me ahead of time for a break up of fellowship because of a particular man that was indeed a wolf in sheeps clothing. I knew this, but was concerned about the possible devastation of the brethren that can happen when their world comes crashing down.

He prepared me with this dream....months before.

-----There was a great field and in that field were a great many bodies that had been dismembered in the most heinous fashion. Parts and pieces all over. As I was looking at the scene a word came to my mind that described it. It was a word that has no human equivalent, but was a combination of things like horror, disgust and atrocity. I didn't know the word then and I haven't since, but it was a powerful impression. Very powerful and impossible to describe. I woke like a shot from a cannon and said, "Lord, what the heck was that". He said, "that is how I feel when I see my body divided".

The impact that lesson had on me can't be overstated.--------

So, when it came time and the LOrd released me from my responsibility in that fellowship , the Lord had me announce that I was moving on and leave it at that. He told me to be silent and take what was coming. While a particular younger brother was lambasting me, the LOrd spoke to me clear as a bell and said, "do not build a case against your brethren and beware the root of bitterness".

About 6 months later, the Lord made sure that man was exposed and he has lost everything. I have spoken to him since twice as the LOrd led and he remains unrepentant.

These things require discernment and guidance.

Your dream gave me quite a visual - powerful,very Powerful .....but when is a Word from Almighty God not Powerful?!

Thank you for sharing,I've always felt very strongly about making accusations or saying a bad word about anyone,no matter how bad ...unless I'm Lead by Holy Spirit to Speak,I will not- if He Wants to use me to expose one then He Surely Will Speak through me.Too often it does more harm than good to speak against anyone

By Encouraging others to seek Discernment,Wisdom & Understanding by the Power of Holy Spirit the very Word of God Will Reveal to people what they should see,God's Truth....

I always Remember Paul Saying " but Christ is being Preached,in that I Rejoice" everytime I hear a preacher who seemingly has his own agenda,peddling Scripture for profit or even twisting God's Word in ways....and yet,he's saying Jesus is the Way,the Truth & the Life! Christianity is a Relationship with God in Christ,the Counselor Will Reveal to them that sincerely seek the Lord with all of their hearts❤️

With love in Christ, Kwik

[BibleWords]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:06 PM, angels4u said:

It's crazy how people can say that God created more then 2 genders,so many are believing lies,it's unreal how the occult is reviving all around us,do we live in a bubble? Nope but wrong is wrong and good is good and only Jesus is "Truth".

You are exactly right.  There seems to be a total abandonment of Biblical right and wrong.  Biblical truth is offensive to so many these days.

However, we have the assurance of Phil. 4:13–I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.

[Raised2newlife]

This is a timely thread for me to read right now as my wife and I are poised to leave our church. We moved to our current home six years ago and attended a large, bible believing church. The Pastor there is gifted at teaching and preaching and we were blessed. In 2020 during covid, the church closed due to governmental lockdowns and then stayed closed due to fear of covid. After a month of online church, I told my wife we had to find an open church and we started attending a smaller country church of about eighty to a hundred people.                       The Pastor loves the Lord and gets quite loud and animated when preaching. I don't mind controlled emotion if the preaching is biblical. 

Last Sunday, everything changed. He started his sermon by stating that 1 John was written to Gnostics and was addressing their error. He said we are not bound by the commands in that book regarding confession and repentance of sin. He said we as believers have been forgiven of all sin, past, present and future. When God looks at us He sees the righteousness of Christ and that's ALL he sees. He said if we confess and repent after conversion, that we are adding to the work of the cross.

He went on a few more minutes and I felt the Holy Spirit rising up in me to protest. I have never interrupted a service in the past. I have discussed his sermons with him afterwards for a few minutes but this time it was a compulsion to question him at that moment. He finally saw my arm waving around and called on me. I asked him if he now planned to never confess and repent anything to the Lord and he said that's correct. We debated for a few minutes and I could discern others were also distraught by this teaching. He finally said 'fine, if you all want to continue confessing and repenting, go ahead, I'm not doing it'. 

I approached him after the service and he was not happy with me. He and his wife said I was rebellious and that is as the sin of witchcraft. I did not try and defend myself but I truly had no rebellion in my heart. I feel as if the rebellion charge is intended to keep people from questioning to deeply. I was just astounded by this strange doctrine I had never heard in my thirty years of learning. 

I've studied throughout this week and have now come to understand I was hearing the Hyper-grace teaching. The error is so clear and blatant it screams heresy to me. 

I believe every Pastor should have a few men in their life for mutual accountability and as a doctrinal sounding board. The church has a couple Deacons but they  want no part of questioning doctrine. 

My wife and I are attending there tomorrow but have decided that's our last day. I don't want to be involved or accused of any division there. I have decided I will not submit to a leader who will not submit to the Lord regarding sanctification. 

I will continue to pray for their fellowship and that God would give the Pastor revelation knowledge regarding sanctification. I am fully saved but I still have a sin nature which wants to rule me. I thank God for His Holy Spirit working to convict and encourage me. 

 

[LiveWire]

On 5/11/2023 at 7:07 PM, ChristB4us said:

If a saved believer or even a sinner was led to believe they can receive the Holy Spirit by a sign as in with evidence of tongues rather than come to and believe in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel, they would be committing spiritual adultery.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

It was claimed that the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches sprang from the Azusa Stret Revival that had its emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.  Yet Jesus's words in Matthew 12:38-40 would judge it as an apostate calling for how many are committing spiritual fornication & adultery.

In today's events, tongues speakers for private use will condemn holy laughter, slain in the spirit, and being drunk in the spirit as not of God and yet those phenomenon were also at Azusa street Revival from where tongues for private use sprang from.  So what was condemned by tongue users today as not of the Lord because of God not being the author of confusion, how can tongues without interpretation and thus assumed for private use, not be judged the same?

 

Nothing you said relates to any portion of my Post.  And this is typical.   

[ChristB4us]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:31 PM, Raised2newlife said:

This is a timely thread for me to read right now as my wife and I are poised to leave our church. We moved to our current home six years ago and attended a large, bible believing church. The Pastor there is gifted at teaching and preaching and we were blessed. In 2020 during covid, the church closed due to governmental lockdowns and then stayed closed due to fear of covid. After a month of online church, I told my wife we had to find an open church and we started attending a smaller country church of about eighty to a hundred people.                       The Pastor loves the Lord and gets quite loud and animated when preaching. I don't mind controlled emotion if the preaching is biblical. 

Last Sunday, everything changed. He started his sermon by stating that 1 John was written to Gnostics and was addressing their error. He said we are not bound by the commands in that book regarding confession and repentance of sin. He said we as believers have been forgiven of all sin, past, present and future. When God looks at us He sees the righteousness of Christ and that's ALL he sees. He said if we confess and repent after conversion, that we are adding to the work of the cross.

He went on a few more minutes and I felt the Holy Spirit rising up in me to protest. I have never interrupted a service in the past. I have discussed his sermons with him afterwards for a few minutes but this time it was a compulsion to question him at that moment. He finally saw my arm waving around and called on me. I asked him if he now planned to never confess and repent anything to the Lord and he said that's correct. We debated for a few minutes and I could discern others were also distraught by this teaching. He finally said 'fine, if you all want to continue confessing and repenting, go ahead, I'm not doing it'. 

I approached him after the service and he was not happy with me. He and his wife said I was rebellious and that is as the sin of witchcraft. I did not try and defend myself but I truly had no rebellion in my heart. I feel as if the rebellion charge is intended to keep people from questioning to deeply. I was just astounded by this strange doctrine I had never heard in my thirty years of learning. 

I've studied throughout this week and have now come to understand I was hearing the Hyper-grace teaching. The error is so clear and blatant it screams heresy to me. 

I believe every Pastor should have a few men in their life for mutual accountability and as a doctrinal sounding board. The church has a couple Deacons but they  want no part of questioning doctrine. 

My wife and I are attending there tomorrow but have decided that's our last day. I don't want to be involved or accused of any division there. I have decided I will not submit to a leader who will not submit to the Lord regarding sanctification. 

I will continue to pray for their fellowship and that God would give the Pastor revelation knowledge regarding sanctification. I am fully saved but I still have a sin nature which wants to rule me. I thank God for His Holy Spirit working to convict and encourage me. 

The irony is that the apostle John was addressing believers that believed sin was no longer sin any more to saved believers for why he was correcting this error.  I can see why that former pastor of yours tried to tell believers not to apply the Book of 1 John as deeming it irrelevant, but he would have to ask the Lord why the apostle John had written it.

And why the apostle John had warned the church to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25 KJV being judged by their works of what was built on that foundation  1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV

So one can see why walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son is how His blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness on a daily basis  and if anyone did sin  1 John 1:3-7 KJV  we have an advocate with the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ  1 John 2:1-2 KJV as we can go to Jesus and confess our sins & He will forgive us of our sins to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 KJV

Plus, you would have to wonder what your former pastor does with the Lord's prayer as He had taught us to pray in Matthew 6:5-15 KJV where He also gave a warning afterwards that if we do not forgive others of their trespasses, neither will the Father forgive ours of their trespasses.  So even here, as a saved believer, I need His help to do that especially when they are not sorry nor even trying to repent from trespassing against me, even though God will have vengeance on them for defrauding me, regardless that they are still His and still saved.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. KJV

So we are to pray for those that have gone astray as well for His help to forgive them for they know not what they do.  Luke 23:33-35 KJV   &     1 Peter 2:19-25 KJV

As for his claim about the Gnostics denying that Jesus had ever come in the flesh, if that former pastor was referring to 1 John 4:1-6 KJV ,  John was addressing believers on how to test the spirits verse 1, by how they are confessing where Jesus Christ is "presently" as dwelling within us verse 2 as Paul did the same in regards to the examination of our faith in 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV .  This is rightly dividing the word of truth because in 1 John 4:3 & 4 those who do not confess Jesus Christ "is come" as being in us but outside of us are testifying to the spirit of the antichrist that is in the world.  Some modern bibles have changed the meaning of 1 John 4:1-6 to be about denying He had come in the flesh at all thus pertaining to a false teaching from the Gnostics, but it is not rightly dividing the word of truth when you discern verses 3 & 4.  We are to test the supernatural tongues these spirits bring vs 5-6 because there is a supernatural tongue which is gibberish nonsense as found in the occult Isaiah 8:19 KJV  and Roman idolatry.  The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices  which existed before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people in their native language.  1 Corinthians 14:20-21 KJV

Thank you for sharing.  We all have different growths in our walk with the Lord and we never stop learning because the Lord will prune even the fruitful ones so they can bear more fruits per John 15:1-2 KJV for why your former pastor should be prayed for that the Lord will lead him to reconsider his errant view on the Book of 1 John for we are to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son as we are to look to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in how we run that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish it to His glory.

[ChristB4us]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:54 PM, LiveWire said:

Nothing you said relates to any portion of my Post.  And this is typical.   

Let's check again

Quote

They still have to be Possessed by something to have power to exemplify Signs and Wonders.  Anyone who is in God and God is in them will feel through Discernment before a hair has a chance to split 10 ways concerning what they are.

People make Wolves seems so powerful.   Challenge them.   Grow some hair in places where it's fallen off over time and challenge these people.   They will fall faster than someone who thinks the Completed Bible is the 
Perfect to Come!

How can any believer discern if they believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again or even for the first time by a sign of tongues at their salvation or "again" of healings or of casting out of devils or of visions? 

According to His words below, that is committing spiritual adultery, brother.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

How do you explain how physical healings and visions can be received and not just tongues in these practices in Roman Idolatry BEFORE PENTECOST came with the real God's gift of tongues which is never gibberish nonsense, but a foreign language of men for God to speak unto the people for?

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The gospel of tongues where the emphasis is on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues is not the gospel of Jesus Christ nor can it ever be.

 

 

 

[LiveWire]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

Let's check again

How can any believer discern if they believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again or even for the first time by a sign of tongues at their salvation or "again" of healings or of casting out of devils or of visions? 

I never said this is a must thing in order to be Saved.  You either do not actually know how to Read, or you have a reading Disorder that places other words when you see certain letters, or you just assume and categorize everyone into a little sect and attack people like they match the IDEAS IN YOUR HEAD!

 

Something, is seriously Wrong with You!