But what about the thief on the cross?

[BeyondET]

8 minutes ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

 

Some pretty weird stuff going on here.

What's weird about debating and people having a different understanding then you?

Edited August 3, 2023 by BeyondET

[Solus Christus]

2 hours ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

I didn't address JB talk on baptism and spirit and fire, BECAUSE IT WASN'T MENTIONED IN A POST!   It is like me saying you didn't address I Cor 6:11 or Eph 5:26-27 in your post either concerning baptism.   You didn't comment on it because it was not apart of the conversation.

Some pretty weird stuff going on here.

I quoted JB (Matthew 3:11) in a post, go back and look.. 

I will state for record I believe you should get both baptisms, water and fire/ Holy Spirit + Gifts of the Spirit after believing in Christ Jesus our Lord and confessing Him. 

Paul’s Act 19:1-11 of doing both baptisms of water & fire is wise. 

But it is believing in Jesus that saves (John 3:-6, John 6:40, Acts 4:10-12, Romans 10:9-10).

Baptisms are important, I wasn’t saying do not baptize, I actually was curious if Jesus was talking about which baptism in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19, water or Fire & Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:12)? But I guess we’ll never get to answering that query. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Solus Christus

[BeyondET]

47 minutes ago, Solus Christus said:

I quoted JB (Matthew 3:11) in a post, go back and look.. 

I will state for record I believe you should get both baptisms, water and fire/ Holy Spirit + Gifts of the Spirit after believing in Christ Jesus our Lord and confessing Him. 

Paul’s Act 19:1-11 of doing both baptisms of water & fire is wise. 

But it is believing in Jesus that saves (John 3:-6, John 6:40, Acts 4:10-12, Romans 10:9-10).

Baptisms are important, I wasn’t saying do not baptize, I actually was curious if Jesus was talking about which baptism in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19, water or Fire & Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:12)? But I guess we’ll never get to answering that query. 

This verse below is interesting Jesus was baptizing before his death and resurrection. John the Baptist stated that Jesus will baptize people with the Holy Spirit and fire. I tend to lean towards what John said about how Jesus baptize's below would be no different.

John 3

22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing.

[Solus Christus]

Just now, BeyondET said:

This verse below is interesting Jesus was baptizing before his death and resurrection. John the Baptist stated that Jesus will baptize people with the Holy Spirit and fire. I tend to lean towards what John said about how Jesus baptize's below would be no different.

John 3

22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing.

Interesting! Thanks for sharing that verse. 
 

[Dead Orthodoxy]

53 minutes ago, Solus Christus said:

I will state for record I believe you should get both baptisms, water and fire/ Holy Spirit + Gifts of the Spirit after believing in Christ Jesus our Lord and confessing Him. 

Paul’s Act 19:1-11 of doing both baptisms of water & fire is wise. 

Both baptisms wise....the last thing I want to do is jump up and down and salivate in the aisles of the church.  No thanks.

[Dead Orthodoxy]

18 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

This verse below is interesting Jesus was baptizing before his death and resurrection.

Jesus was NOT baptizing before his resurrection.  Please the the whole text. See John 3:22-4:3 in context.

4:1  Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— ² although in fact IT WAS NOT JESUS WHO BAPTIZED. but his disciples.

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

Jesus was NOT baptizing before his resurrection.  Please the the whole text. See John 3:22-4:3 in context.

4:1  Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— ² although in fact IT WAS NOT JESUS WHO BAPTIZED. but his disciples.

Your mixing chapters and implying they both mean the same. At times Jesus baptized and other times just His deciples.

John 3

26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

The disicples were the agents of His baptism just like the desciples were the agents in feeding 5,000 people.

Edited August 4, 2023 by BeyondET

[Dead Orthodoxy]

2 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Your mixing chapters and implying they both mean the same. At times Jesus baptized and other times just His deciples.

Ignorance upon Ignorance upon Ignorance. Early manuscripts of the biblical texts did not contain the chapter and verse divisions in the numbered form familiar to modern readers.

Pre-Reformation era Bibles only contained chapter headings but not verse numbering.

The first English New Testament to use the verse divisions was a 1557 translation by William Whittingham (c. 1524–1579). The first Bible in English to use both chapters and verses was the Geneva Bible published shortly afterwards in 1560.

Is there any person on WCF who knows this besides myself? 

This is just GENERAL knowledge of Christian history....something you don't have.

I wish a generally educated person would converse with me.

 

[BeyondET]

8 minutes ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

Ignorance upon Ignorance upon Ignorance. Early manuscripts of the biblical texts did not contain the chapter and verse divisions in the numbered form familiar to modern readers.

Pre-Reformation era Bibles only contained chapter headings but not verse numbering.

The first English New Testament to use the verse divisions was a 1557 translation by William Whittingham (c. 1524–1579). The first Bible in English to use both chapters and verses was the Geneva Bible published shortly afterwards in 1560.

Is there any person on WCF who knows this besides myself? 

This is just GENERAL knowledge of Christian history....something you don't have.

I wish a generally educated person would converse with me.

 

Regardless of the verse and chapter numbering system no deciple performed a baptism without Jesus being involved.

You have alot pride to deem yourself as having superior education.

Or just rude.

Edited August 4, 2023 by BeyondET

[Dead Orthodoxy]

Just now, BeyondET said:

Regardless of the verse and chapter numbering no deciple performed a baptism without Jesus being involved.

Yes, Jesus allowed his disciples to participate in John's baptism.  What is the problem with that? I could care less.  Of course the disciples participated with John in Baptizing people.

The concept of baptism changed with the resurrection of Jesus. John's baptism is not in union with Christ.   My goodness, Jesus hadn't died yet!  A reasonable person would come to this conclusion. 

John's baptism is not Christian baptism, which I believe you know is true.  This is not rocket science. 

Why?  Because Christian baptism is in union with Jesus' death and resurrection which John's baptism didn't contain.  This is not rocket science. Hello McFly!  

I guess you can never see the distinction between John's baptism and Christian baptism.  So be it.

I am finished with you on this subject matter.   END OF DISCUSSION.