The Revelation of the Latter Days: The New Jerusalem and The Rapture before the end of year 2028

[George]

It's good to see lots of discussion using the Bible as their talking points without it getting personal.  Job well done!   

One thing to remember in discussing prophecy ... none of us have fully comprehended it and if you think you've figured it out ... then you've stopped listening to the gentle moving of the Spirit as prophecy is still unfolding as we speak!

I'll give you an example ... just this week, on Worthy Watch I posted a video from Yuval Harari discussing the advent of a coming Ai Bible with a new Ai religion within 5 years.  We really could have imagined this idea 20 years ago.   The book is still being unsealed ...  

[Retrobyter]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, seeking the lost said:

The primary text is Matthew 13 with the parable of the wheat and the tares.  This states clearly that the tares are gathered out first and burned.  

Shalom, seeking the lost.

Have you considered that the parables of Matthew 13 (with the exception of the first parable) are not about this current time at all, but are about God's Kingdom under the reign of Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God, the King of Israel? These parables are about the Millennium, the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom.

In the parable of the wheat and the tares, Yeeshuwa` specifically said,

Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV)

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

It's important for one to differentiate between the Kingdom of the Messiah and the Kingdom of God the Father. Keeping in mind that Paul was talking about the resurrections, Paul said,

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 BUT EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24
(2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him [the Messiah].) 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son [the Messiah Yeeshuwa`] also himself be subject unto him [God the Father] that put all things under him [the Messiah], that God may be all in all.

Thus, the gathering of the tares happens at the END of the Millennium, the SECOND Resurrection - the Resurrection of the Unjust - to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:8-15). The Father's Kingdom - the "Barn" - is the eternal state of the New Earth with its New Sky and its capital city, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1-22:4).

On 6/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, seeking the lost said:

I recognize the book of Revelation as the teaching of Jesus recorded by John.  Consider Rev. 14:

The Harvest of the Earth

14 And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15 Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16  So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, with authority over the fire, came from the altar and called out in a loud voice to the angel with the sharp sickle, “Swing your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the vine of the earth, because its grapes are ripe.”

19 So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the grapes of the earth, and he threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and the blood that flowed from it rose as high as the bridles of the horses for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

To be consistent both the wheat and the tares have grown together to this point.

No, this passage in Revelation 14:14-20 is about the BEGINNING of the Messiah's Kingdom, while the parable of Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43 is speaking of the END of the Millennium, the FIRST 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom.

Just a note: It's not right to say that the 1,000 years are the Messiah's "Millennial Kingdom." In Luke 1:30-33, Gabriel said this to Mary:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER; and OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END."

Thus, His Kingdom over the House of Ya`aqoV is FOREVER, and there shall be NO END of His Kingdom! However, as we see above in 1 Corinthians 15:28, after the Messiah has subdued all of His enemies, then He turns over the EMPIRE OVER THE EARTH to His Father, while He continues to reign over Israel forever.

On 6/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, seeking the lost said:

Malachi 4: 

The Day of the LORD
(Zephaniah 1:7–18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1–11; 2 Peter 3:8–13)

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”

2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall. 3 Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.

Again, in the words revealed above by Yeeshuwa` Himself and Paul, this happens at the END of the Millennium. Furthermore, YHWH Tsva'owt ("the LORD of Hosts") IS God the Father, for He is the One to whom Yeeshuwa` prayed while in His First Advent, calling Him "Father."

On 6/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, seeking the lost said:

Ezekiel 9 is a foreshadowing of how the Lord will handle the last days.  The righteous are marked and all that are not marked are wiped out.  Revelation is similar in these verses; Rev 7: 1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back its four winds so that no wind would blow on land or sea or on any tree. 2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, with the seal of the living God. And he called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

Rev. 9: 3 And out of the smoke, locusts descended on the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

This seal is the protection from the wrath of God.

Ezekiel 4 through 12 speak of the idolatry of the nations of Israel and Yhudah and why God's glory is leaving the Temple and punishing the idol worshippers and sending them into captivity among other nations. This all occurred PRIOR to the return under Nechemyahuw (Nehemiah) and Ezra. When one uses the prophecies of the Tanakh (the OT), one should be sure that the prophecies speak about the time which they want to discuss.

[The Light]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The TIMING is not relevant via the Three Harvests per se. BUT if you understand that Apophis hits on April 13, 2029, thus ad 1260 days to that, you will have a Fall Returns of the Lord, just like you have a Fall coming of the Lord fir the Pre Trib Rapture.

 

Well, we can agree that Apophis hits the earth on April 13, 2029. However, we view things much, much differently.

You seem to want to add 1260 days to that asteroid hitting. I'm not sure why you would want to do that. The 7 trumpets are the wrath of God and the asteroid is the fourth trumpet. THE WRATH OF GOD LAST ONE YEAR. In other words, Jesus does not return for Armageddon until a year has passed from the time of the first trumpet.

Here's how I see things.

Hosea 6

 

After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2  Peter 3

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Christ died in 30 AD. He will revive the Jews after 2 thousand years. That would be the year 2030 for His return to set up His kingdom and the third day would be the millennial kingdom.

Strangely, if we realize that the wrath of God lasts for one year, AS THE WORD says, that would fit perfectly with the asteroid. What a coincidence.

Israel was born in a day in 1948. The generation that sees the fig born will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled. 

Matthew 24

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

How long is a generation?

Psalms 90

10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

A generation is 3 score and 10, meaning 70 years. A generation of strength is 4 score. 80 years.

Israel was born in 1948 and if we add 80 years, that would be the year 2028. Strangely that would put a coming of Jesus right before the wrath of God, at the 6th seal. And of course Jesus does come at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for the fruit harvest at the 6th seal which would be 2028. Then Jesus comes at the end of wrath in the year 2030 to set up His kingdom...........just hypothetical coincidences.

It Jesus comes in 2030, 7 years prior is the year 2023. Hmm.

When Jesus comes for the dead in Christ it will be in the spring, Passover time. When Jesus comes for the alive Church it will be in the summer, Pentecost time. FYI, there are 3 Pentecost's. The second Pentecost is called the Feast of New Wine. It is the celebration of the wheat harvest. Hmm.

The dead in Christ rise.........The barley harvest

Song of Solomon 2

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

The alive Church that remained......the wheat harvest

Song of Solomon 2

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

 

The fruit harvest that occurs at the 6th seal is for the twelve tribes across the earth. That is why they are singing the song of Moses in Revelation 15. There are 144,000 first fruits of this harvest.

The fall Feast of Trumpets is for the 12 tribes. They will be raptured at the last trump which will happen at the 6th seal. Only the nation of Israel, those that fled to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth when the wrath of God begins.

The dates line up. And there are many more dates that line up. Just a coincidence of course.

Edited June 14, 2023 by The Light

[seeking the lost]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, yes, but the Church was already Raptured Pre Trib. The Elect here is Israel, the Martyrs are the Gentiles who repent AFTER the Pre Trib Rapture. The Remnant in Rev. 17:12 is the Gentile Church.

If we had some bacon we could have bacon and eggs if we had some eggs.  Without a resurrection there can not be a rapture.  Please show the text that says there is a resurrection before the tribuation.  Is ther a text or just your reasoning?

It seems that you have neither bacon or eggs.

[seeking the lost]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, yes, but the Church was already Raptured Pre Trib. The Elect here is Israel, the Martyrs are the Gentiles who repent AFTER the Pre Trib Rapture. The Remnant in Rev. 17:12 is the Gentile Church.

How is anyone saved without someone to share with them?  Romans 10: 14,15 New International Version
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Much of the teaching of the pretribulation rapture has come from those who have had visions and special revelations.  Whatever you have seen must not add to the text or take away from it.

[Montana Marv]

57 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

How is anyone saved without someone to share with them?  Romans 10: 14,15 New International Version
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Rev 14:6 - Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth; to every nation, tribe, language and people.

The Churches replacement, well before Post-Trib. well before your speculation of a Post-Trib Rapture and/or resurrection.  No added Scripture, none taken away.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[seeking the lost]

29 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Rev 14:6 - Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth; to every nation, tribe, language and people.

The Churches replacement, well before Post-Trib. well before your speculation of a Post-Trib Rapture and/or resurrection.  No added Scripture, none taken away.

In Christ

Montana Marv

That proclamation does not seem to be a message to the lost.  The message is "Fear God and give Him Glory"

I just need to see the resurrection anywhere in the scripture that will support a rapture.  The only text that I know that fits is at the end of the thousand years.  The rest of the dead are raised at that time.  Jesus taught that those who are believers will be raised on the last day (John 6).  That is the last day. (2 Pet. 3: 10)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

That proclamation does not seem to be a message to the lost.  The message is "Fear God and give Him Glory"

I just need to see the resurrection anywhere in the scripture that will support a rapture.  The only text that I know that fits is at the end of the thousand years.  The rest of the dead are raised at that time.  Jesus taught that those who are believers will be raised on the last day (John 6).  That is the last day. (2 Pet. 3: 10)

What then is the Eternal Gospel; and who is it for.  For the Lost.  Same 4000 years ago, same 2000 years ago.  Only difference over the past 2000 years it is the Church who does the delivery of this message.  The Lost hear from us.  Later the Lost will hear from an angel flying is midair.  The Scriptures most likely will have been banned and abolished by the time the A/C comes on the scene.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Revelation Man]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

I can't figure out why you create a problem that you feel the need to solve when there is no problem, brother. Why not just accept what is written and believe that the 144,000 are in heaven, just like the Word says. John went to a lot of trouble to list where each 12,000 so that makes no sense. What really makes no sense is that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and can't be in Petra

On 6/13/2023 at 6:20 PM, Revelation Man said:

There is NO PROBLEM, there is fact and fiction, God in code, for reasons I have explained, VERY CLEARLY, gave us code words for Israel and Jerusalem in the book of Revelation, on purpose. So, when you see Jerusalem called that city like unto Sodom & Egypt in Rev. 11 it is so Rome would not get angry at a book/letters saying Jerusalem would be a great city in the future, because Rome had just sacked Jerusalem. This is why The Woman is used in Rev. 12 and the 144,000 is used in Rev. 7 and 14. Do you think New Jerusalem will be 144,000 stadia? 

New Jerusalem will 144 million square stadia, 4.9 million square kilometers or 1.9 million square miles.

No, of course not, New Jerusalem is going to be as big as it is going to be, and it is not for us to know, thus God just tells us New Jerusalem is Completeness x Fullness. 

So, you say there is no there there, I am creating a phony problem, I beg to differ and have explained this time and again. You can admit the Woman is code for ALL the Jews (Israel) who repents but you can not admit the 144,000 are also a code because you can not admit, it seems, to being wrong. Its just odd TBH.

God is not tryin g to get 12,000 Virgins (SMILE........Yea right) from  Israel, just like there will not be 10 Virgin Brides. God is using numbers and somehow you got left behind on that hayride, I just saw it 5 or 6 years ago myself, LOL. I started seeing all the things we saw as hard to understand, and confusing as NOT CONFUSING when we used the numbers of the Old Testament in a way God used numbers. WHY? Because there was only 4000 words on the original Hebrew and no vowels. God therefore used many numbers to convey information. 

10 = COMPLETION, 7 = Divine Completion, 6 = MANKIND, the number 8 = New Beginnings, the number 12 = Fulness etc. etc.

The 10 Commandments, the 10 Plagues, the 7 Trumps, the 7 Seals which open the 7 Trumps, the 7 Vials which emit from the 7th Trump. The 7 Eyes and 7 Spirits = God sees All and is Everywhere. The 10 Kings that arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head now makes perfect sense, God give Satan no info ahead of time, He simply stated it this way without the Number System, the COMPLETE NUMBER THEREOF, will arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head, and the Anti-Christ will be born in that end time Kingdom of Many Nations. Well, that is what the 10 means the COMPLETE European Union reunited in the end times, and thus the Little Horn  arises AMONGST THEM, meaning simply that he is born in the E.U. which is a Nation of PARTLY STRONG [Nations] and PARTLY WEAK [Nations]. 

So, in essence, you not understanding how God us using numbers has left you behind brother, you will never grasp end time prophecy without understanding God's system of using numbers to relay information unto us. By the way, God wrote the book of Revelation, NOT John. He was simply given signs/visions and had Angels utter utterances unto him. Rev. 1:1 says God GAVE Jesus the book of Revelation, and it was then given unto John. These are God's numbers, codes, metaphors and judgments. 

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

Revelation 14 occurs in the seals because the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, at the 7th trumpet. That means Armageddon is over and the Lord has set up His kingdom on earth.

 

The Seals DO NOTHING, it is merely Jesus in heaven opening the sealed scroll of Judgments. The MUST THEREFORE END, before the Wrath of God starts, the 7th Seal starts the Wrath rolling. You see the 6th Seal "PROPHETIC UTTERANCE" by Jesus and you can not grasp it is a prophesy of a soon to come event.

Really? Again !! Rev. 11 via the 7th Trump. Revelation 14:17-20, Rev. 16:19 and Rev. 19:17-20 are all the EXACT SAME EVENT !! The book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order, from Rev. 2 through 9 is, then we get Rev. 15&16 which is really one chapter. Then we get the Parenthetical Citation Chapters which cover those 42 months of God's Wrath as seen in Rev. 8, 9 15&16.

Rev. 8 STARTS God's 42 months of Wrath. Rev. 12 sees the Woman being chased by Satan for how long? 42 months. Rev. 8 as we know sees the Beast ruling for the exact same 42 months. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL False Religion) and she gets SHUT DOWN or killed off in vs. 16 but WHY? Because the Beast DEMANDS to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD for 42 months. Then finally Rev. 18 is the WHOLE WORLD (Babylon the Great) getting Judged over a 42 month period of time. You will never grasp it in full as long as you can not see the book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order.  

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

When that first seal is open and the rider on the white rides, which is soon, the people around here are not going to say the seals do nothing. Each seal brings something be it war, famine, pestilence, death and the great tribulation and then the coming of Jesus at the 6th IN THE CLOUDS. Not to the earth. The happens at the 7th trumpet.

The FIRST SEAL Prophesies the Beast to comes 42 month rule as does seals 2, 3, 4, and 5. Until you get that the Seals are Prophetic, you like most people, will not be able to grasp God's truths in full. Why do you think the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8? That is where the DOTL/God's Wrath starts. So, TAKE OUT Seals 1-5, (WATCH THIS) which is the Anti-Christ, whom rules for 42 months, we cam see his rule of 42 months starting in Rev. 13, but God's Wrath is shown in Rev. 8, 9, 15&16 (ONE CHAPTER REALLY). 

So, lets see if the 6th Seal AND Joels chapter 2 MATCH Rev. 8 !!

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake(Think Asteroid Impact); and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,(could be Satan cast out of Heaven or speaking about the Rev. 8 Asteroid) when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before(in the FACE OF or Presence of) the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

So, there is FIRE & SMOKE, and the Sun is Darkened and the Moon turns Blood Red, at the time of the DOTL, God's Wrath. So, WHAT EVENT CAUSES ALL OF THIS? Lets look at Rev. 8, we can see it.

Rev. 8:1 And when he(Jesus) had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven(7 = Divine Completion) angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood(Hot incoming Sulfur balls breaking off of an Asteroid), and they were cast upon the earth(Most Asteroid break apart before making impact, this will thus cast must sulfur balls down to earth in that its larger and will make an impact): and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up

{{ I think THE 1/3 is a DESTINATION, the New World, so basically the New World or Two Americas will burn up completely imho and the Old World will be preserved for tactical reasons, Jesus is going to rule from Jerusalem}}.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea(Asteroid/Apophis hits inn the Pacific Ocean just off the California Coast): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

{{ The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of the water on the face of the whole earth, so if we can GRASP IT, God is telling us 1/3 of the Earth will be burns and 1/3 of the waters will be affected and the Pacific Ocean is just of the Cal. coastline. }}

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood(Poisons the fresh waters in the 1/3 target area WHERE IT HITS): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

{{ Notice each Judgment is brought forth by an ANGEL Sounding a Trumpet, in the Vials each Judgment comes via an ANGEL Pouring out a Vial, but with the Seals we see nothing like this, only Jesus taking of Seals, and FORETELLING what is about to befall mankind when the 7  Seal is opened. Here the 3rd Angel brings forth a Judgment, but that Judgment is merely FALLOUT POISON from  the Asteroid Impact !! So, it will poison the fresh waters in North & South America only. I think the Asteroid Impact takes out the New World, the Three Woes takes out or targes those people in the Old World, but without destroying the land, Jesus needs a Kingdom Age fit to start ruling. }} 

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened(Smoke from 1/3 of the world burning filters out the Sunlight), and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

{{{The ABOVE Four Trumps are the DOTL/God's Wrath FORETOLD in both Joel 2:30-32 and via the 6th Seal. They are of course not all of God's Wrath, that continues with the Three Woes, which come from the last Three Trumps as vs. 13 below shows us. }}}

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, Seal #6 is PROPHETIC in nature, as is Joel 2:31. The Wrath of God starts with the Asteroid Event that CAUSES both Joel 2:31 and the Rev. 6 Sixth Seal Prophecy to come to pass. With that Asteroid Impact God ALLOWS the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering. Thus Rev. 13 lasts for 1260 days, the exact same timeframe as God's Wrath lasts for. Why is it that Angels blow the trump and pour out the vials and they are ANNOUCED, but there Seals are merely Jesus opening  a sealed scroll, which you take as a judgment, when it clearly is not. When you get to heaven and see all these things I am saying are correct you be like, But Lord, why didn't you tell us, and he will be like, I did, via my Servant Rev Man. 

Seals bind a book/scroll, how hard is this to visualize? The Judgments are bound, there are only 7, the 7 Vials ARE the 7th Trumpet Judgement. So, 7 is COMPLETE Judgment, and then the 7 Vials stamp it as Completely COMPLETED !! The 7 Seals do what? COMPLETELY UNWRAPS the Sealed 7 Judgments. 

The Wrath comes in Rev. 8, the Wars are SHOWN in Rev. 13s Beast reign, which covers the same time frame as Rev. 8, 9 and 16. The Seals simply FORETELL these events, they do not bring them.

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

They do not need protection as they are not going through the wrath of God. They are raptured to heaven sometime in the first four seals, which was proven above. You need to understand what you are reading.

On 6/13/2023 at 6:20 PM, Revelation Man said:

They NEED Protection, that is why God tells the Angels to HOLD UP the Four Winds (Judgments) which hurt the Earth, Tree and Seas (Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments) UNTIL the 144,000 (All Israel who repents) are SEALED (we are SEALED in Jesus Christ). And we know those Jews who Repent and turn unto Christ will flee unto the Petra/Bozrah area. It all fits hand in hand, but you cling to old men's ideas of long ago, it seems to not have registered that God promised to reveal END TIME THINGS to those living in the end times, yet y0u are pulling all your understandings from  men's ideas that I saw 35 years ago, and much of it came from 50-100 years ago or more. They were not privy to the end time info that we are privy unto. They will not be Raptured to Heaven, Jesus starts the 1000 year Kingdom Age with them. Its like talking into the air however. It will just go whistling by you.

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

Here watch this. Yes, there are prayers before the throne, but here is the Church in heaven before the throne that are not prayers.

 

You can not win this debate, the Jews do not get RAISED until the VERY END, read Daniel 12:1-2, they only get RAISED when the time of troubles has finished. The Church needs to go to heaven to Marry the Lamb, Israel are married to the Father.

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

I understand that from Revelation 14 we can prove that the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the 5th seal and likely sometime around the 1st seal. I also understand that the harvest of which they are 1st fruits of happens when Jesus comes at the 6th seal. The great multitude is the result of this harvest.

They are SEALED at the 1335, which is 45 days before the AoD where they Flee Judea and 75 days before the Anti-Christ becomes The Beast by conquering Israel/Jerusalem and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. Elijah is sent back before the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God (Malachi 4:5). The Seals are METAPHORIC in nature anyway, the Trumpet Judgments are not. Do you really think Jesus has to lose a Book of Judgments in order to bring Judgment? It is meant to get people (especially people from 2000 years ago who understood SEALED MESSAGES,) to understand that Jesus has a timeframe in which his Judgments will all fall over a 42 month period that starts with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Trumps. This is why Seal #7 is over in Rev. 8, whereb the JUDGMENT STARTS and it is like (THINK  NOW) Jesus said, I am opening this "Book" which will release God/the Lambs Wrath, BUT..............I can not open Seal  #7 (which brings THE WRATH) until my people Israel (1/3) REPENT/Atones, then and only then can Seal #7 be opened. Thus we see Rev. 7 comes BEFORE Rev. 8 an the 7th Seal for a reason. God is opening up the Seas tat release the Judgment Trumps and all of the suddenly the last seal SKIPS a chapter, and that is because FIRST, the Jews have to REPENT and then Flee Judea in Rev. 7.

Jesus comes at the 7th Vial. SMH........Come on man !! The Multitude are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. NO ONE goes to Heaven after the Pre Trib Rapture, REMEMBER !! Jesus said once the wedding starts, if you missed the call, the DOORS will be SHUT!! No one else will be Raptured during the 70th week.

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

I think right now the Church should be getting ready as the Lord is at the door.

On 6/13/2023 at 6:20 PM, Revelation Man said:

Yes, for the Pre Trib Rapture, I see a Fall of 2025 as the latest date

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 PM, The Light said:

No. The dead in Christ rise first, the barley harvest. The alive remain. Then the Lord comes for the wheat harvest. He will bring the dead in Christ with Him in the clouds. This does not happen in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Corinthians 15 that happens in the twinkling of an eye occurs at the 6th seal. The dead and alive are raised at the same time.

No one goes straight to heaven, NO ONE has been taken to Heaven yet, we can be SHOWN our loved ones in Heaven, like John was shown future events in the book of Revelation. But the DEAD and the LIVING both MEET in the air to go be with Jesus. This happens at the same time (blink of an eye) Paul was merely beig a Pastor and reassuring the Corinthians their loved ones would not be left behind ENTER CAR SALESMAN.....As a matter of fact they will be raised a BLINK OF AN EYE BEFORE WE ARE.....LOL. Sure Paul, way to spread the jam on thick in order to build up the FAITH of the Church, because Paul was telling the truth, their loved ones will be RAISED UP, and not left, that was the important point he needed to drive home, WATCH what he did......WATCH NOW (Its funny)

They went from fretting (UNBELIEF) about their loved ones being left behind, to Paul telling them HEY........Your loved ones are going to be raised before you are (Now they can fret whether they will be taken to heaven with their dead loved ones/LOL). The Dead and Living are all taken at the same time. Don't try to raise legit  arguments from Epistles of ENCOURAGEMENT !! Never do that. By the way, the CHANGE that happens is simply us who are alive LEAVING our flesh bodies behind (or WE DIE and go in Spirit to be with the Lord.)

The Rapture is Pre Trib, which means it happens JUST AFTER the Church Age Ends at Rev. 4:1.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

How is anyone saved without someone to share with them?  Romans 10: 14,15 New International Version
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

For starters, 5 of the 10 Virgins miss the Wedding Call. That does not mean they go to hell, that means they how ever will be on earth for God's Wrath and for the Anti-Christs rule So, that is one Billion People who still know the Gospel, preaching the Gospel for the first 3.5 years will not be forbidden. The Angel takes over after the Anti-Christ forbids Jesus Worship and any worship of any Religion save Beast Worship.

Many people not professing to ever have been Christian will see 1 Billion Christians die (that is right, we LEAVE our bodies behind at the Rapture) all at the same time, and see events around them, which edifies the bibles prophesies, and will become Christians, God can speak through His holy Word also.

Lastly, the Two-witnesses will be sent back at the 1335 to get Israel to repent, but they will be on LIVE TV around the world, so everything thy say will be heard in real time. The Holy Spirit never leaves, just the vessel he works through DEPARTS as 2 Thess. 2 clearly says. 

15 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Much of the teaching of the pretribulation rapture has come from those who have had visions and special revelations.  Whatever you have seen must not add to the text or take away from it.

Paul taught it VERY CLEARY, it can be seen throughout the bible to those who understand the TIMING TELLS of Prophecy. I am a Prophecy guy, tbh, anytime someone tells me they do not see the Rapture as Pre Trib, in my heart, I know they are never going to be able to see the DEEP TRUTHS of God's End Times, why? Because they can not grasp a very SIMPLE End Time Event.