There are 2 separate tribulations, the first is to the Jew

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Then you disagree with Paul…

Romans 2:9

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that “doeth evil,”of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”

 

The tribulation Paul is talking about is Gods wrath upon the “evil doers” first to the Jew, then to the Nations.

 

Paul is not speaking about the trying of the saints by Satan, he is talking about the wrath of God that will be poured out on evil doers. The evil doers of the Jews were the first to suffer Gods indignation and wrath.

 

The Gentiles, or all the “evil doers”of the Gentile nations of the world will suffer God’s wrath starting at the 6th seal.

 

Revelation 6:12-17

King James Version

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Do I have this correct?

You think GOD BLINDED them 'till the time of the gentiles is fulfilled'

and then pours out HIS WRATH upon them FOR BEING BLIND

before HE LIFTS THE BLINDNESS OFF OF THEM, TO graft them back in? 
 

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[DeighAnn]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

THE DELIVERER, the CHRISTIAN MAKER, who TURNS AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB

THE SCATTERED SHEEP, THE 12 other TRIBES, THE SHEEP WHO were without a shepherd, who forgot who they were scattered to the world when coming out of their captivity, who were sifted amongst the heathen, those who blessing would come upon the world through, those who would become MANY NATIONS, a great nation, a company of nations....

ALL ISRAEL 

[DeighAnn]

Jews who are of the TRIBE OF JUDAH

VS 

Those who live in Jerusalem or covert to the religion

vs

Those who CLAIM to be JEWS but ARE NOT but are of the synagogue of Satan...of their father the devil...VIPERS...never in bondage to any man...who called out 'crucify Him'

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


WHO are you speaking of when you speak of the 'JEWS'?   

Everyone seems to think they can put forth things THAT CONTRIDICT other things LIKE THEY ARE TRUTH, when THEY obviously can't be, because GODS WORD IS PERFECT.  

[Stewardofthemystery]

39 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Do I have this correct?

You think GOD BLINDED them 'till the time of the gentiles is fulfilled'

and then pours out HIS WRATH upon them FOR BEING BLIND

before HE LIFTS THE BLINDNESS OFF OF THEM, TO graft them back in? 
 

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

God poured out His wrath on the Jews because they were “evil doers”and rejected His Word right from the word go coming out of Egypt. By which He also warned them by the mouth of the prophets, warning them to repent of their wickedness. And then finally sending John and His Word made flesh in Jesus, warning them of the wrath that was to come.

But they even rejected Jesus’ words of warning concerning the coming destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad.

Jesus warned them “to flee Jerusalem” when they saw the Roman Army encompassing Jerusalem.

Luke 21:20-21

King James Version

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea “flee to the mountains;”and let them which are in the midst of it “depart out;”and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.”

But they rejected His Testimony, and all those who rejected Jesus’ words of warning also stayed, and were slaughtered with a great slaughter.

It is the same today with the Gentiles, those who reject His Testimony, and His words of warning will go into destruction!

Revelation 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

Edited June 25, 2023 by Stewardofthemystery

[DeighAnn]

45 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

God poured out His wrath on the Jews because they were “evil doers”and rejected His Word right from the word go coming out of Egypt. By which He also warned them by the mouth of the prophets, warning them to repent of their wickedness. And then finally sending John and His Word made flesh in Jesus, warning them of the wrath that was to come.

Coming out of EGYPT they hadn't even received the law.  AND when they did THEY FOLLOWED THEM FOR A LONG TIME.  

It wasn't until later when they wanted an EARTHLY KING did things start to go wrong.  

And they knew of the blessings and the cursings well before John and Jesus came.  They had already gone into captivity...

And Gods WRATH has been around a long time..."I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath." Hosea 13:11 KJV


So, I have no idea what you are talking about.  

Again, YOU don't seem to think it IMPORTANT to distinguish WHO you are speaking about

when in REALITY it makes all the difference in the world.  

ALL THE PROPHETS were very clear

WHEN THEY were speaking of

THE house of Jacob

VERSES

the House of Israel

VERSES

the House of Judah

BECAUSE the prophecies were different for each of them.  STILL ARE.  







 

[Stewardofthemystery]

19 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Coming out of EGYPT they hadn't even received the law.  AND when they did THEY FOLLOWED THEM FOR A LONG TIME.  

It wasn't until later when they wanted an EARTHLY KING did things start to go wrong.  

And they knew of the blessings and the cursings well before John and Jesus came.  They had already gone into captivity...

And Gods WRATH has been around a long time..."I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath." Hosea 13:11 KJV


So, I have no idea what you are talking about.  

Again, YOU don't seem to think it IMPORTANT to distinguish WHO you are speaking about

when in REALITY it makes all the difference in the world.  

ALL THE PROPHETS were very clear

WHEN THEY were speaking of

THE house of Jacob

VERSES

the House of Israel

VERSES

the House of Judah

BECAUSE the prophecies were different for each of them.  STILL ARE.  







 

They corrupted themselves even before Moses had came down from the mount with the law.  God was ready to destroy them right then and there.

Exodus 32

King James Version

32 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord.

6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

The nice thing for this wicked obstinate Jew is I can't even begin to follow or understand this conversation, and therefore can't tell if this is more antisemitic replacement theology nonsense to be offended by.

How can someone BLINDED by GOD be anything but blind?  

How can a Christian not be THANKFUL to/for those who have been BLINDED for their own salvation to come forth?

Why don't CHRISTIANS just ACCEPT what GOD HAS DONE and LEAVE THOSE OF THE LAW to the work GOD has appointed them to?  Do Christians really believe that they can give sight to whom God has blinded?  There aren't enough words or hours in which that could be accomplished.

INSTEAD of persecuting the House of Judah for NOT believing in Christ, CHRISTIANS should LEARN to distinguish between those who CALL themselves Jews BUT AREN'T, and those who truly are, better yet, leave it all alone.     



Quick question if willing, where do you see us being as far as

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 Past present or future?  If any of it has taken place, what parts and when?  
 

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I have no clue what you are asking. How about speaking in plain English?

What is your understanding of Dan 9:24-27?  

[Stewardofthemystery]

15 hours ago, Slibhin said:

The nice thing for this wicked obstinate Jew is I can't even begin to follow or understand this conversation, and therefore can't tell if this is more antisemitic replacement theology nonsense to be offended by.

Many here do hold to replace theology, but I do not.  What this thread is about is how the Jewish people were “the first”to have the message of salvation preached to them, and they were “the first”to receive salvation by believing in the Word of God.

But for those of the Jewish people who were in rebellion against God and His Word, the “evil doers” Paul calls them, they were also “the first”people to suffer Gods wrath.

Paul speaks of the order here, when he says “first to the Jew, then to the Gentile”

Romans 2:6-10

King James Version

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, “of the Jew first,”and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, “to the Jew first,”and also to the Gentile:”

[Stewardofthemystery]

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

What is your understanding of Dan 9:24-27?  

It is fulfilled!