abcdef Posted January 11 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted January 11 9 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said: I agree with you, it says they have the power to shut heaven if they will to use that power to do so that it rain not in their days. Understand that all these prophecies must fit together perfectly to be valid. One example would be that all the theories must match with Dan 2 and Dan 7. Dan 2 is the simplest. Dan 7 adds details. How would the story of the 2 witnesses match up in the Dan 2 timeline? Where would it fit in, and how? It's just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted January 11 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted January 11 9 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said: I agree with you, it says they have the power to shut heaven if they will to use that power to do so that it rain not in their days. Zech 4:1-14, 11-14, tells who the 2 witnesses are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AFlameOfFire Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, abcdef said: Zech 4:1-14, 11-14, tells who the 2 witnesses are. Yeah, that was mentioned earlier in the thread I was just thinking out loud on places where we can see two men, the testimony of two men, and him sending them in two's,, the law and the prophets, or the law and the testimony, and throwing it out not at anyone really but pretty aimlessly. You know, the two women are two covenants throwing around the two men in that way. I find that's how more understanding comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AFlameOfFire Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, abcdef said: Understand that all these prophecies must fit together perfectly to be valid. Yeah, that's why I was throwing stuff out there and why I was telling Dennis earlier "I know what you mean by too long, because I have piles of things on how it could possibly be understood, all of which will confirm up to a certain point, but not for certain as far as I can prove it out." 2 hours ago, abcdef said: One example would be that all the theories must match with Dan 2 and Dan 7. Dan 2 is the simplest. Dan 7 adds details. How would the story of the 2 witnesses match up in the Dan 2 timeline? Where would it fit in, and how? It's just something to think about. Yeah, looking at the details and running with them from every which way helps me too, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, abcdef said: No, I didn't say that. I said that, it does not say, that it does not rain for the entire time of the 2 witnesses. It says that they have to power to stop the rain when they want to. Just because they have the power to do it, doesn't mean that they will do it. They will just do it when they want to. You said the the 2 witnesses were American generals who were in charge and that their orders to "fire" were the orders to "open fire" on the enemies. How do the 2 generals stop the rain from falling? Cloud seeding.In an arid land like the middle east,it wouldn't be hard . Edited January 11 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, abcdef said: Understand that all these prophecies must fit together perfectly to be valid. One example would be that all the theories must match with Dan 2 and Dan 7. Dan 2 is the simplest. Dan 7 adds details. How would the story of the 2 witnesses match up in the Dan 2 timeline? Where would it fit in, and how? It's just something to think about. Understand that all these prophecies must fit together perfectly. The two witnesses would need to arrive in Israel right about the time of this verse.3.5 years before the resurrection. Daniel 11:31 His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. And they would need to die right about at this verse. Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. And they would need to stand on their feet and ascend in a cloud right at about this verse. Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Edited January 11 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, abcdef said: Understand that all these prophecies must fit together perfectly to be valid. One example would be that all the theories must match with Dan 2 and Dan 7. Dan 2 is the simplest. Dan 7 adds details. How would the story of the 2 witnesses match up in the Dan 2 timeline? Where would it fit in, and how? It's just something to think about. All these prophecies must fit together perfectly.For instance,the two witnesses should be arriving in Israel just about the same time these two horn assume authority and practice the authority of the first beast for 42 months. Revelation 13 11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It has the power to do great signs for 42 months.That would be 1260 days and both beasts are cast (ALIVE)into a lake of fire. Revelation 13 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months Edited January 11 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatwo Posted January 11 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 572 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 123 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/18/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 21 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Lately, I have been mentioning Biblical patterns, precedence, shadows, and types in another thread. The prototype of the patriarch Elijah, how he shut the rain off through God, certainly fits one of the Two Witnesses. Then, we have a couple more thought-provoking things. Hi Dennis1209... I am curious as to what makes you think it is "two men?" I ask this in the context of the two passages preceding the introduction of the "two witnesses." Tatwo...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AFlameOfFire Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, tatwo said: Hi Dennis1209... I am curious as to what makes you think it is "two men?" I ask this in the context of the two passages preceding the introduction of the "two witnesses." Tatwo...:) Boo! Hey Tatwo! How are you brother? You know, I am not answering for Dennis he can answer for himself, but I had to ask, why wouldn't anyone think they were not two men? Even if it was someone's initial understanding would seem very understandable. Because they have mourners garb on them, they are two prophets (two witnesses). They prophesy for a certain period of time, and they (as the men who were before them) given power that they can use, and if any man wanted to hurt them (since men do get hurt) they could kill whoever desired to do so with the fire that proceeds from their mouths (and men have mouths). Men speak the word of God (which is a fire) and God said he would make the words in their mouth a fire (and that the testimony of two men were true). But they also die and their dead bodies lay in street of a great city but they also ascend unto heaven while their enemies look on. I find it far more obvious they are men in the picture, whether they are symbolic or not. The majority of the burden would lie on someone who has enough scripture and understanding and ability to convince others that its not what it might appear and in what way to the contrary it couldn't be. Ad how it could be otherwise is what I would say. Especially if its to be spiritually understood, and our first understanding is to take things naturally anyway. Though that does not mean that the players in the pictures are just two alone. Took me a bit to catch two women being two covenants (and both had children in the flesh, although maybe not both were really of the flesh) but the sons were very real, and although you can say the women were symbolic, they and their sons were real. Even the olive trees for example, it might not be far fetched that two such trees in some fashion (depending on how it speaks) be representatives of two groups if it was broken down between the root and the branches, even though it only shows two men there. If its understood another way, you have to work extra hard to show it to the contrary I would think, because I would think if it was spiritual its takes more on the part of the one who might see it like that to present their case. You know, tighten things up, make them more sure that way. Peace to you in Christ bro Edited January 11 by AFlameOfFire Up 24 hours that was so badly written I edited sorry bout that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 20 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said: I am not answering for Dennis he can answer for himself, but I had to ask, why wouldn't anyone think they were not two men? I'm not answering for Tatwo but here's something to consider: The Lord of the earth appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 along with His two witnesses who proceeded to Sodom to rescue Lot. They brought mercy for the righteous and judgment for the ungodly. We know that angels are appointed duties and given responsibilities. It could be that the two angels (witnesses) are involved in the administration of judgment and mercy, which can be seen in the law and the prophets. Maybe these angels take on human form, or maybe they are there in a supporting role. John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah (Luke 1:17). I think that speaks to more than just personality. I think the same angelic spirit that supported Elijah supported John and will be one of the two witnesses either in human form or in support of a human. The takeaway is that the two witnesses are primarily spiritual beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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