Any thoughts on this?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

No works to be saved

There you go!  Just believe Jesus exists, and keep living as you were and you'll go to Heaven because the Lord does it all.  Whether one lives a clean life or a dirty life in sin it matters not because God did it all and we're saved either way.

Sounds like your position is man does nothing at all, zero, nota, zilch.

If we do anything at all, that's considered trying to earn our salvation!

[ayin jade]

A truly regenerated person, born again by the Holy Spirit will want to change, will want to live a life pleasing to the Lord. Will a Christian be able to live a sinless life? I know I cant. It is why He needed to come be our sacrifice. But I, and other Christians, are not content to live a life of sin.

[NConly]

I wonder if these verses have been posted

Gal 5

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The above is part of the doctrine we are to follow

Also

2nd John

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

 

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

There you go!  Just believe Jesus exists, and keep living as you were and you'll go to Heaven because the Lord does it all.  Whether one lives a clean life or a dirty life in sin it matters not because God did it all and we're saved either way.

Sounds like your position is man does nothing at all, zero, nota, zilch.

If we do anything at all, that's considered trying to earn our salvation!

If you were a believer,  Stan, you would already know what you must do to be saved.
You jump from OSAS to works/no works salvation and more. You just look for fault.
Need to maybe limit your ingestion of liquids. Bye...

Read the Roman's Road, just google it. God works in mysterious ways......
 

[DeighAnn]

15 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

A truly regenerated person, born again by the Holy Spirit will want to change, will want to live a life pleasing to the Lord. Will a Christian be able to live a sinless life? I know I cant. It is why He needed to come be our sacrifice. But I, and other Christians, are not content to live a life of sin.

I think you can.  I think you are.  I think you have just heard so many times you are a sinner you don't understand that the REALITY is, is it isn't that often.  


Yes, the GIFT of Salvation IS AWESOME.  All OUR lives we don't have to worry about ever going to hell.  I can't imagine the pressure that made someone feel.  

BUT EVEN BETTER than that AND ABOUT THE WORK ON THE CROSS ALSO, is the sending of the COMFORTER, THE Holy Spirit.  

We don't have to walk alone, EVER.  Being without sin IS A PRAYER AWAY.  Talking with God LIKE THE PRIEST who ONLY ONCE A YEAR got to go into the Holy of Holies, IS OURS ALL THE TIME.  

No wonder PAUL preached the CROSS.   I don't think CHRISTIANS appreciate or comprehend HOW THE WORK on the Cross CHANGED life in the flesh.  

He took AWAY the FEAR and replaced it with PEACE and REST and made it so much easier to WALK HOLY AND PERFECT.   

I can't begin to tell you how often I throw up my arms and GIVE GLORY and THANKS to GOD

for MAKING ME.  For loving me.  For putting on this most WONDERFUL PLANET and MOST wonderful EVEN in its 'corrupted' state and me in mine.  IF this is the 'fallen' part of my existence, I understand why NO WORDS can make me understand what comes next.   

Yes, I am a sinner BECAUSE I SOMETIMES SIN.  BUT for sure I live my life WITHOUT SIN way way way more than I do with sin.  I have NO PROBLEM when being convicted of dropping down in repentance and asking for help to not have to do/feel/think/ that again.  Wow, I possibly digress, possibly not.  God knows. 


Maybe I am wrong BUT I will point out a few things and ask a few questions that I once asked of myself, rhetorical questions of course.  Just ponder, assess your situation.  

, the 600 plus laws given were given to a people who had ALL been slaves for 400 years and they were mostly on how to run a nation.  Government, land, food, police etc and all the temple and priest rituals.  With all the nations having gone into captivity and no longer being, and Jesus 'nailing' all the ordinances of the temple and sacrifice laws to the Cross, that pretty much leaves us with the 10 commandments.  Or as Jesus put it,  LOVE GOD, LOVE one another as you love yourself.  

So in which way exactly are you sinning? 

Are you not able to put God first in your life?  

1And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Of do you keep making/creating things in the likeness and bowing down to it to serve it? 

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Are you using His name like it's nothing?  Are you swearing and oath upon it,  like it has no meaning?

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

With Jesus becoming our rest, and GOD not being about the 'rituals' but about the Love, are you having a hard time keeping your life in His ways?  Does finding time to dedicate to His word each week seem to be a problem?  Do YOU FEEL like you are 'sinning' because of a conviction coming from WITHIN, or are there those who are trying to convict you from what is within them???   

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Hate mom and dad everyday?

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Having to hold yourself back from pre meditated murder?  

13Thou shalt not kill.

Got to fool around? 

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Can't go into a store without taking something and not paying for it? 

15Thou shalt not steal.

Lying about people to get them in trouble?

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Is 'keeping up with the Jones' taking up all your thoughts?  

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

If you found yourself with a hungry person, would you not feed them?  If you found a truly needy person and you could help would you walk away without a care?  

Do you find yourself unwilling to speak about God when someone asks?  

Do you think regular human emotions aren't allowed?  Are you enjoying the life you have been given?  


Maybe it's me, but breaking Gods commandments would be WAY HARDER to do than following them.  I don't even think about those things, like ever.  His ways are just RIGHT, and RIGHT feels natural.  

Maybe its because I am just getting too old to care about the world.  Maybe I don't care about the ways of the world because I have been 'seeking' to do it His way for so long.  I repent for REACTIVE THOUGHTS more than anything else and even that I don't have to do very often anymore.  


I'm just saying we have for so long been told 'we are sinners' and if we say were not we are liars,

but I think we might need to focus on how we are told we are to be walking HOLY instead.  

Anyway, there it is.  2 more cents.  



 

[kwikphilly]

On 8/11/2023 at 2:05 PM, Stan Murff said:

I'm going by what people have been showing me from the bible which is what God says right?

It seems to say all sins have already been forgiven past present and future!

Of course now I have an exchange going with this preacher who claims he can prove christians can lose salvation and he wants to send me bible verses showing that

Maybe I should get him to do that and post the verses here that says we can lose salvation.

I've noticed that talking to other christians they all get upset if you don't agree with their point of view

Well Stan....  it's not about "Christians" getting upset- it's about people who get upset-we are all just " people and if responses are made with the carnal mind bound by a spirit of pride then the term "Christian" is loose at best..    right?

I really don't know how to address your query because the answer is not so black & white- yes,past present and future sins are absolved  but that means those future sins are not premeditated ,if a person sins,continues to sin and has no intention of changing his ways because he's willfully choosing to sin then the question really is- who does he serve? One cannot serve to masters, one is either Saved or not...

Surely it's a process of Sanctification,Renewal & Growth but its a heart condition...... intention,choice,decision..... If one chooses to yield to the flesh then we have to wonder,is this person truly Born Again.....no one is going to accidentally lose their Salvation,no one can earn his Salvation- it's a matter of the heart- Jesus Said this"IF you love me you will follow my commands".....

That"IF" is the biggest,loudest ,strongest Word in all the Scriptures to me personally"- when we find we are continuing in a life of disobedience we must ask ourselves" Do I love the Lord,do I truly love Him?"......

[AnOrangeCat]

11 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Surely it's a process of Sanctification,Renewal & Growth but its a heart condition...... intention,choice,decision..... If one chooses to yield to the flesh then we have to wonder,is this person truly Born Again.....no one is going to accidentally lose their Salvation,no one can earn his Salvation- it's a matter of the heart- Jesus Said this"IF you love me you will follow my commands".....

That"IF" is the biggest,loudest ,strongest Word in all the Scriptures to me personally"- when we find we are continuing in a life of disobedience we must ask ourselves" Do I love the Lord,do I truly love Him?"......

Scripture reinforces scripture. I John 5:2-4 confirms that we show love for God by following His commands. "This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith."

The way I see it is repentance is an ongoing process. God knows we're going to stumble and fail from time to time, especially those suffering from addiction and past conditioning. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best and put up a fight against sin. Going against our sinful natures and not taking the easy way is a very real way to show our love. I personally find it to be a daily battle.

[kwikphilly]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I think you can.  I think you are.  I think you have just heard so many times you are a sinner you don't understand that the REALITY is, is it isn't that often.  


Yes, the GIFT of Salvation IS AWESOME.  All OUR lives we don't have to worry about ever going to hell.  I can't imagine the pressure that made someone feel.  

BUT EVEN BETTER than that AND ABOUT THE WORK ON THE CROSS ALSO, is the sending of the COMFORTER, THE Holy Spirit.  

We don't have to walk alone, EVER.  Being without sin IS A PRAYER AWAY.  Talking with God LIKE THE PRIEST who ONLY ONCE A YEAR got to go into the Holy of Holies, IS OURS ALL THE TIME.  

No wonder PAUL preached the CROSS.   I don't think CHRISTIANS appreciate or comprehend HOW THE WORK on the Cross CHANGED life in the flesh.  

He took AWAY the FEAR and replaced it with PEACE and REST and made it so much easier to WALK HOLY AND PERFECT.   

I can't begin to tell you how often I throw up my arms and GIVE GLORY and THANKS to GOD

for MAKING ME.  For loving me.  For putting on this most WONDERFUL PLANET and MOST wonderful EVEN in its 'corrupted' state and me in mine.  IF this is the 'fallen' part of my existence, I understand why NO WORDS can make me understand what comes next.   

Yes, I am a sinner BECAUSE I SOMETIMES SIN.  BUT for sure I live my life WITHOUT SIN way way way more than I do with sin.  I have NO PROBLEM when being convicted of dropping down in repentance and asking for help to not have to do/feel/think/ that again.  Wow, I possibly digress, possibly not.  God knows. 


Maybe I am wrong BUT I will point out a few things and ask a few questions that I once asked of myself, rhetorical questions of course.  Just ponder, assess your situation.  

, the 600 plus laws given were given to a people who had ALL been slaves for 400 years and they were mostly on how to run a nation.  Government, land, food, police etc and all the temple and priest rituals.  With all the nations having gone into captivity and no longer being, and Jesus 'nailing' all the ordinances of the temple and sacrifice laws to the Cross, that pretty much leaves us with the 10 commandments.  Or as Jesus put it,  LOVE GOD, LOVE one another as you love yourself.  

So in which way exactly are you sinning? 

Are you not able to put God first in your life?  

1And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Of do you keep making/creating things in the likeness and bowing down to it to serve it? 

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Are you using His name like it's nothing?  Are you swearing and oath upon it,  like it has no meaning?

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

With Jesus becoming our rest, and GOD not being about the 'rituals' but about the Love, are you having a hard time keeping your life in His ways?  Does finding time to dedicate to His word each week seem to be a problem?  Do YOU FEEL like you are 'sinning' because of a conviction coming from WITHIN, or are there those who are trying to convict you from what is within them???   

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Hate mom and dad everyday?

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Having to hold yourself back from pre meditated murder?  

13Thou shalt not kill.

Got to fool around? 

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Can't go into a store without taking something and not paying for it? 

15Thou shalt not steal.

Lying about people to get them in trouble?

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Is 'keeping up with the Jones' taking up all your thoughts?  

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

If you found yourself with a hungry person, would you not feed them?  If you found a truly needy person and you could help would you walk away without a care?  

Do you find yourself unwilling to speak about God when someone asks?  

Do you think regular human emotions aren't allowed?  Are you enjoying the life you have been given?  


Maybe it's me, but breaking Gods commandments would be WAY HARDER to do than following them.  I don't even think about those things, like ever.  His ways are just RIGHT, and RIGHT feels natural.  

Maybe its because I am just getting too old to care about the world.  Maybe I don't care about the ways of the world because I have been 'seeking' to do it His way for so long.  I repent for REACTIVE THOUGHTS more than anything else and even that I don't have to do very often anymore.  


I'm just saying we have for so long been told 'we are sinners' and if we say were not we are liars,

but I think we might need to focus on how we are told we are to be walking HOLY instead.  

Anyway, there it is.  2 more cents.  



 

Right-its a heart condition,isn't it? JESUS abides in the Believer- having Jesus Heart and Mind it is "natural" to want to do " right"...... pretty simple really

What isn't " natural" is the outside influence from the god of this world that plants those little seeds in our own minds to distract us from His Thoughts(our Eternal Mindedness)....  Feed the Spirit is a must do!

[JimmyB]

11 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

There you go!  Just believe Jesus exists, and keep living as you were and you'll go to Heaven because the Lord does it all.  Whether one lives a clean life or a dirty life in sin it matters not because God did it all and we're saved either way.

Sounds like your position is man does nothing at all, zero, nota, zilch.

If we do anything at all, that's considered trying to earn our salvation!

This is a total misrepresentation.

a) Works cannot save anyone.  Salvation is a gift from God.  Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

b) You are conflating salvation with works done by a Christian.  No Christian wants to continue living a sinful life

c) Why are you distorting God's word?

[JimmyB]

11 hours ago, NConly said:

I wonder if these verses have been posted

Gal 5

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The above is part of the doctrine we are to follow

Also

2nd John

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

 

I think you meant that Galatians 5:19-21 are what we should not be doing.