Any thoughts on this?

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

the house of the Rechabites

which makes it even worse

[Vine Abider]

@Stan Murff said: You cannot prove He drank wine with alcohol in it...

Well this is silly, but here goes - and you cannot prove otherwise. (and it's pretty funny to think Jesus was called a "glutton and a drunkard" if they were all just drinking grape juice! )

@Stan Murff said: Actually you have been proven to not believe the second half of Romans 8:1... pure and simple.

The supposed 2nd half of Romans 8:1, "who walk not after the flesh . . ." is not in most modern translations, because it's not in the original text.  Therefore it properly reads thusly: "There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." 

[Marathoner]

4 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

@Stan Murff said: You cannot prove He drank wine with alcohol in it...

Well this is silly, but here goes - and you cannot prove otherwise. (and it's pretty funny to think Jesus was called a "glutton and a drunkard" if they were all just drinking grape juice! )

@Stan Murff said: Actually you have been proven to not believe the second half of Romans 8:1... pure and simple.

The supposed 2nd half of Romans 8:1, "who walk not after the flesh . . ." is not in most modern translations, because it's not in the original text.  Therefore it properly reads thusly: "There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." 

Correct on both accounts, brother. 

Why would our Lord be accused of being a "drunkard" if all He was doing was drinking fruit juice? Excellent question! 

You have rendered Romans 8:1 faithfully and your report is true. 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

and you cannot prove otherwise

No problem, you can believe Jesus did things that appeared to be evil in violation of His own Word  (Abstain from all appearance of evil - 1 Thessalonians 5:22) and I'll go with he did not drink alcohol


 

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

it's not in the original text

That's untrue and you know it.

But whatever... I would expect no less from the OSAS camp to remove things from scripture that doesn't agree with their pre-conceived ideas.

If one keeps reading, the same thing is said yet again.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

( *This is speaking of the Law of Christ - Romans 8:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, Galatians 6:2, James 2:12, James 1:25 )

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

So, you gonn a claim these verses were not in the original text as well?


 

15 hours ago, Marathoner said:

You have rendered Romans 8:1 faithfully and your report is true. 

Not according to the rest of Romans 8

This is the problem with the OSAS peoples is they reject the whole counsel of God because that's the only way they can make the claim that OSAS is true.

To hold this position one must become like Benjamin Franklin and start cutting out portions of scripture you don't agree with which is making unauthorized changes to God's Word!
 

Change NOT Gods Word

Deuteronomy 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it,
that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor
take away from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

1 Corinthians 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos
for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so
that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Revelation 22:18-19
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if
anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this
book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which
are written in this book.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Stan Murff

[DeighAnn]

Genesis 14



18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


 

 3196. yayin ►
Strong's Concordance
yayin: wine
Original Word: יַיִן
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yayin
Phonetic Spelling: (yah'-yin)
Definition: wine
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
wine
NASB Translation
banquet (1), grape (1), wine (136).

Brown-Driver-Briggs
יַ֫יִן141 noun masculinePsalm 75:9 wine (Late Hebrew id.; Ethiopic : vitis, vinea, vinum; Arabic  (black) grapes, see HomZMG 1889, 654; Sabean וין vineyard, MordtZMG 1887, 364 Homl.c. 659 (both after Glaser); Assyrian inu in vocabularies, but this loan-word from western Shemites, according to HomAufsätze 102; JenZA i, 186 f., ZMG 1890, 705 argues to the contrary) — absolute יַ֫יִן Genesis 9:21 84t.; יָ֑יִן Genesis 14:18 33t.; construct יַ֫יִן Psalm 60:5; Songs 8:2; יֵין Deuteronomy 32:18 9t.; suffix יֵינִי Songs 5:1, etc.; — wine:
a. common drink, for refreshment Genesis 14:18 (E?) Genesis 27:25 (J), Judges 19:19; 2 Samuel 16:2; Amos 5:11; Amos 9:14; Hosea 14:8; Job 1:13,18; Daniel 1:5 +, tonic Proverbs 31:6; article of commerce Ezekiel 27:18; Nehemiah 13:15; among supplies in strongholds 2Chronicles 11:11; as making merry 2 Samuel 13:28; Zechariah 9:15; Zechariah 10:7; Esther 1:10; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Ecclesiastes 10:19; Psalm 104:15.

b. used for rejoicing before ׳י Deuteronomy 14:26, compare Hosea 9:4; as drink-offering in prescribed ritual Exodus 29:40; Leviticus 23:13; Numbers 15:5,7,10; Numbers 28:14; among temple stores 1 Chronicles 9:29; used also in heathen ceremonial, see Deuteronomy 32:33.

c. intoxicating 1 Samuel 1:14; 1 Samuel 25:37; Genesis 9:21,24; Genesis 19:32,33,34,35 (all J), Isaiah 5:11,22; Proverbs 21:17; Proverbs 23:30,31 +; "" תִּירוֺשׁ Hosea 4:11; "" שֵׁכָר 1 Samuel 1:15; Micah 2:11; Isaiah 24:9; Isaiah 28:7 (twice in verse); Isaiah 56:12 12t.; forbidden to Nazirites Numbers 6:3 (twice in verse) (חֹמֶץ יַיִן וְחֹמֶץ שֵׁכָר), Numbers 6:4; Numbers 6:20, compare Amos 2:12; to Rechabites Jeremiah 35:2,5f.; to mother of Samson Judges 13:4,7,14; to priests entering sanctuary Leviticus 10:9 (P), Ezekiel 44:21; unfitting for kings Proverbs 31:4.

d. combinations are: יֵין הַטּוֺב Cant 7:10 = the best wine (read כַּיַּיִן ?) Ges§ 133. 3, R. 1; יֵין מַלְכוּת Esther 1:7 royal wine; אֹצרְוֺת יַּיִן 1 Chronicles 27:27 stores of wine, wine-supply; יַיִן הָרֶקַח Songs 8:2 spiced wine; מִשְׁתֵּה הַיַּיִן wine-feast Esther 5:6; Esther 7:2,7,8; סֹבְאֵי יַיִן Proverbs 23:20 wine-bibbers; נאֹד יין wine-skin Joshua 9:4,13; 1 Samuel 16:20; נֵבֶל יין id. 1 Samuel 1:24; 1 Samuel 10:3; 1 Samuel 25:18; 2 Samuel 16:1; Jeremiah 13:12 (twice in verse); בֵּית הַיָּ֑יִן Songs 2:4 either wine-house, where wine is drunk, feasting-house (De and others), or place of wine = vineyard (Ew and others; compare גֶּפֶן יַיִן Numbers 6:4).

e. metaphor of wisdom's drink Proverbs 9:2,5, compare Isaiah 55:1; of ׳יs wrath Jeremiah 25:15 (כּוֺס היין); of confusion sent by ׳י, יַיִן תַּרְעֵלָה wine of reeling Psalm 60:5, compare Psalm 75:9; of ׳יs awaking for vengeance, like a wine-shouter Psalm 78:65; of Babylon's fierce power Jeremiah 51:7; of love Songs 5:1; יֵין חֲמָסִים Proverbs 4:17; in simile of one bursting with words Job 32:19; of disheartened prophet Jeremiah 23:9 (כְּגֶבֶר עֲבָרוֺיַיִן); of lover's mouth Cant 7:10 (see above); love is better than wine Cant 1:2; 4:10.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
banqueting, wine, winebibber
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented);

by implication, intoxication -- banqueting, wine, wine(-bibber).

Exo 29

32And Aaron and his sons shall eat the flesh of the ram, and the bread that is in the basket, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

33And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.

34And if ought of the flesh of the consecrations, or of the bread, remain unto the morning, then thou shalt burn the remainder with fire: it shall not be eaten, because it is holy.

35And thus shalt thou do unto Aaron, and to his sons, according to all things which I have commanded thee: seven days shalt thou consecrate them.

36And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.

37Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy.

38Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.

39The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:

40And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.

41And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

42This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.

43And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by my glory.

Numbers 6

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:

3He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

4All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

6All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body.

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Sounds like you enjoy drinking booze and have gathered up a few bible verses to make it OK in your mind.  Enjoy!

The topic of drinking the booze reminds me of a joke...

You know how to tell the difference between a catholic and a baptist?
Ar least the catholic says hi to people at the liquor store!
 

[DeighAnn]

 I.  Yayin, from the root yayan, to ferment, used of every sort of wine. The word occurs 142 times, and includes fermented wine of all kinds.
  The first occurrence is:
  Genesis 9:21.  "Noah planted a vineyard and drank yayin and was drunken."
  Genesis 14:18.  "Melchizedek . . . brought forth bread and wine."
  1Samuel 25:36, 37.  Nabal drank yayin and "was very drunken."
  Isaiah 28:1.  "The drunkards of Ephraim . . . are overcome (that is to say, knocked down) with yayin."
  Jeremiah 23:9.  "I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom yayin hath overcome".
  It is perfectly certain, therefore, from these passages, that yayin was fermented, and was intoxicating.
  Yayin was also used for sacred purposes and for blessing:
  Genesis 49:12.  "His (Judah's) eyes shall be red with yayin, and his teeth white with milk."
  Amos 9:13.  "I will bring again the captivity of my people, and they shall plant vineyards and drink the yayin thereof."  (verse 14 is No. V.)
  Ecclesiastes 9:7.  "Drink thy yayin with a merry heart, for God now accepteth thy works."
  The Nazarite, at the expiration of his vow, drank yayin. See Numbers 6:13-20. It was used at the Feasts of Jehovah (Deuteronomy 14:24-26), and was poured out as a drink-offering to Jehovah (Exodus 29:40. Leviticus 23:13. Numbers 15:5).
 II.  Tirosh, from yarash, to possess = must, or new wine, so called because it gets possession of the brain. It occurs thirty-four times in the Old Testament.
  Hosea 4:11.  "Whoredom and yayin and tirosh take away the heart" (that is to say, they blunt the feelings, derange the intellect).
  Some say that tirosh means grapes, and is used as solid food, because in Genesis 37:28 we read of "tirosh and corn". We might as well say that when we speak of "bread and water", that water is also a solid, because bread is a solid. On the contrary, "tirosh and corn" mean liquids and solids, by the figure of Synecdoche (of Genus), Appendix 6.
  Proverbs 3:10.  "Thy presses shall burst out with tirosh."
  Isaiah 62:8.  "The sons of the stranger shall not drink thy tirosh."
  Joel 2:24.  "The fats (vats) shall overflow with tirosh and oil."
  Micah 6:15.  "Thou shalt tread . . . tirosh, but shalt not drink yayin."
 III.  Chemer, from chamar, to ripen. Hence used of strong red wine. It occurs eight times.
  Deuteronomy 32:14.  "The pure chemer of the grape."
  Isaiah 27:2, 3.  "A vineyard of chemer. I the Lord do keep it".
  Ezra 6:9.  Cyrus and Artaxerxes commanded that chemer should be given to the people of Israel for the service of the God of Heaven.
  The Rabbins called it neat wine, because, unmixed with water, it disturbs the head and brain.
 IV.  Shekar = strong drink (from shakar, to get drunk), a very intoxicating drink made from barley, honey, or dates.
  Numbers 28:7.  "In the holy place shalt thou cause the shekar (strong wine) to be poured unto the Lord for a drink offering."
  Deuteronomy 14:-25, 26.  "Thou . . . shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: and thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for yayin (wine), or for shekar (strong drink), or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household".
 V.  'Asis (from 'asas, to tread) new or sweet wine of the vintage year.
  Isaiah 49:26.  "They shall be drunken with their own blood, as with 'asis (sweet wine)".
  The drinking of this was held out by God as a blessing conferred by Him. Joel 3:17, 18. Amos 9:13.
 VI.  Sob'e, any kind of strong intoxicating drink: from sab'a, to drink to excess, become drunk: occurs twice.
  Isaiah 1:22.  "Thy silver is become dross, thy sob'e (wine) mixed with water".
  Hosea 4:18.  "Their sob'e (drinking bout or carouse) is over" (Authorized Version their drink is sour (margin gone). Revised Version margin their carouse is over).
 VII.  Mimsak, mixed or spiced wine.
  Proverbs 23:30.  "They that tarry long at the yayin; they that go to seek mimsak (mixed wine)."
  Isaiah 65:11.  "That prepare a table for Fortune, and that fill up mingled wine (mimsak) unto Destiny" (Revised Version).
 VIII.  Shemarim, from shamar, to keep, preserve, lay up; hence, old wine, purified from the lees and racked off.
  Psalm 75:8.  "But the shemarim (dregs), all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them."
  Isaiah 25:6.  "Wines on the lees."
  Zephaniah 1:12.  "I will . . . punish the men that are settled on their shemarim (lees)".
  Jeremiah 48:11.  "Moab . . . hath settled on his lees."
  N.B. The word translated "flagons of wine" is 'ashishah, from 'ashash, to press; hence a hardened syrup made of grapes, a sweet cake of dried grapes or pressed raisins. It occurs in 2Sam. 6:19. 1Chron. 16:3. Song 2:5. Hosea 3:1.
  With these data it will be seen that the modern expression, "unfermented wine", is a contradiction of terms. If it is wine, it must have fermented. If it has not been fermented, it is not wine, but a syrup.
  Leaven is sour dough, and not wine. It is that which causes the fermentation. There can be no leaven after the process of fermentation has ceased.  From my Companion App 27

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Sounds like you enjoy drinking booze and have gathered up a few bible verses to make it OK in your mind.  Enjoy!

The topic of drinking the booze reminds me of a joke...

You know how to tell the difference between a catholic and a baptist?
Ar least the catholic says hi to people at the liquor store!
 

see above

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Medical STUDY - No Safe Level of Alcohol
Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle Washington


Paris (AFP) - Even an occasional glass of wine or beer increases the risk of health problems and dying, according to a major study on drinking in 195 nations that attributes 2.8 million premature deaths worldwide each year to booze.

"There is no safe level of alcohol," said Max Griswold, a researcher at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation in Seattle, Washington and lead author for a consortium of more than 500 experts.

Despite recent research showing that light-to-moderate drinking reduces heart disease, the new study found that alcohol use is more likely than not to do harm.

"The protective effect of alcohol was offset by the risks," Griswold told AFP in summarising the results, published in medical journal The Lancet on Friday.

"Overall, the health risks associated with alcohol rose in line with the amount consumed each day."

Compared to abstinence, imbibing one "standard drink" -- 10 grammes of alcohol, equivalent to a small beer, glass of wine or shot of spirits -- per day, for example, ups the odds of developing at least one of two dozen health problems by about half-a-percent, the researchers reported.

Looked at one way, that seems like a small increment: 914 out of 100,000 teetotallers will encounter those problems, compared to 918 people who imbibe seven times per week.

"But at the global level, that additional risk of 0.5 percent among (once-a-day) drinkers corresponds to about 100,000 additional deaths each year," said senior author Emmanuela Gakidou, a professor at the University of Washington and a director at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

- 'Less is better, none is best' -

"Those are excess deaths, in other words, that could be avoided," she told AFP.

The risk climbs in a steep "J-curve", the study found.

An average of two drinks per day, for example, translated into a 7.0 percent hike in disease and injury compared to those who opt for abstinence.

With five "units" of alcohol per day, the likelihood of serious consequences jumps by 37 percent.

The "less is better, none is best" finding jibes with the World Health Organization's long-standing position, but is at odds with many national guidelines, especially in the developed world.

Britain's health authority, for example, suggests not exceeding 14 drinks per week "to keep health risks from alcohol to a low level".

"There is always a lag between the publication of new evidence and the modification and adoption of revised guidelines," said Gakidou, who admitted to being an "occasional drinker" herself.

"The evidence shows what the evidence shows, and I -- like 2.4 billion other people on the planet that also consume alcohol -- need to take it seriously."

Overall, drinking was the seventh leading risk factor for premature death and disease in 2016, accounting for just over two percent of deaths in women and nearly seven percent in men.

The top six killers are high blood pressure, smoking, low-birth weight and premature delivery, high blood sugar (diabetes), obesity and pollution.

But in the 15-49 age bracket, alcohol emerged as the most lethal factor, responsible for more than 12 percent of deaths among men, the study found.

- The 95 percent club -

The main causes of alcohol-related deaths in this age group were tuberculosis, road injuries and "self-harm", mainly suicide.

King's College London professor Robyn Burton, who did not take part in the study, described it as "the most comprehensive estimate of the global burden of alcohol use to date."

The examination of impacts drew from more than 600 earlier studies, while a country-by-country tally of prevalence -- the percentage of men and women who drink, and how much they consume -- drew from another 700.

Both were grounded in new methods that compensated for the shortcomings of earlier efforts.

Among men, drinking alcohol in 2016 was most widespread in Denmark (97 percent), along with Norway, Argentina, Germany, and Poland (94 percent).

In Asia, South Korean men took the lead, with 91 percent hitting the bottle at least once in a while.

Among women, Danes also ranked first (95 percent), followed by Norway (91 percent), Germany and Argentina (90 percent), and New Zealand (89 percent).

The biggest drinkers, however, were found elsewhere.

Men in Romania who partake knocked back a top-scoring eight drinks a day on average, with Portugal, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Ukraine just behind at seven "units" per day.

Ukranian women who drink were in a league of their own, putting away more than four glasses or shots every 24 hours, followed by Andorra, Luxembourg, Belarus, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland and Britain, all averaging about three per day.

Source - https://www.yahoo.com/news/zero-tolerance-no-safe-level-alcohol-study-says-224245668.html

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Stan Murff

[DeighAnn]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

see above

 

7 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Sounds like you enjoy drinking booze and have gathered up a few bible verses to make it OK in your mind.  Enjoy!

The topic of drinking the booze reminds me of a joke...

You know how to tell the difference between a catholic and a baptist?
Ar least the catholic says hi to people at the liquor store!
 

Not me.  No more than 1 periodically, and 2 or 3 a couple times a year.   I get WAY SICK before I get to 'drunk'.  I don't know if there is such a thing as 'allergic' to alcohol, but if so, I have it.  

I just believe that God wants our love, and that doesn't come from bondage to rules that fit one person yet not the other.  Those who have a problem with someone having a 'drink or two' to relax, or for the stomach, or to help when sad, have issues of their own, just not the one presently on the table. 

I was a smoker.  I could say 'it isn't written anywhere' and justify my smoking while condemning someone else's vice.  But in the end I always knew it was BAD for my body and I was a slave to it and THAT was the sin to me.  So I try not to judge another mans servant as well as not put chains on others where I don't believe they belong.  And I am truly blessed in that BY FAR the best 'highs' I have ever experienced are the 'revelations' I have received from the words of GOD.