Many doubts about Christianity

[Guest shiloh357]

I am weak on the OT, frankly and am working to learn more.

You have to know the OT better than the NT, it is the beginning point of faith, any faith. No matter what anybody says, this is the first book that God handed down to man. It's like a mormon looking at his book of mormom, doctrine of covernants and never bothered with his OT or NT, if they claim to be christians, then they need to study and know the ground work for there faith inside out, before they start with there books.

You need to stop studying Judaism. The Judaism of today is not the religion of the OT. Judaism is an adjustment to the destruction of the Temple. Judaism as we know it did not begin until 72 A.D. The Temple had been destoryed and the question arose as to how the Jewish religion would continue. Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zachai, in an Israeli town called Yavneh ruled that that the commandments of the Torah would take the place of the sacrifices. It was then that Pharisaism became "Judaism." This is why even today Judaism reckons the calendar according to the ancient Pharisaic method as opposed to the Sadducean method that was employed until the destruction of the Temple.

Furthermore, where your understanding of Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies are concerned... You need to understand a few things. In the days that Jesus was on the earth, the Rabbis were divided over how the Messiah would come.

The ancient Rabbis had a debate based upon the following passages:

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

(Genesis 49:8-12)

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall: The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him: But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:) Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

(Genesis 49:22-26)

They saw in these two passages, two different "Messiahs." They saw in Gen 49:8-12, "King Messiah" or "Messiah ben David" as he was known in Rabbinic literature. This was a conqueror and man of war.

in 49:22-26 they see "Messiah ben Joseph" a suffering Messiah, a Torah teacher, and miracle worker.

So rabbinic debate even in the days of Jesus was, concerning whether there would be two Messiahs; a suffering Messiah and King Messiah, OR would there be ONE Messiah to fulfill both roles.

It is true that Jesus has not fulfilled every prophecy... yet. There is more to be fulfilled, though. Jesus is coming back to fulfill the prophecies of Messiah ben David.

[ruah brit]

Lewis said that as Christians we know that salvation is only found in Christ, what we don't know is if only those who know Christ will be saved by Him.

Lewis is wrong. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

Amen

Only those who have the Spirit of Christ and God are saved.

o 8

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Denise

[ayin jade]

When we as christians say you need Jesus to have a relationship with God and everlasting life, the Jew already has that. God came to them and handed down the Torah at Mount Sinai, they already have a everlasting relationship with God.

Actually they do not have everlasting life. They need Jesus too. Without Jesus, they will be judged by the Law, which condemns. Jesus said as much too, in John 8:24. As for the relationship, they do not have God indwelt in them. They do not have the Holy Spirit in them that believers have. They lack that personal relationship with God. The Jews today need Jesus as much as everyone else does.

[JesusismyLord]

I just don't know what to believe. The more I read on both religions, the more I just sway back and forth. I understand and can see exactly what the jews think about Jesus and the "NT". I can step outside the box and try my best to see and understand where the jews are coming from. I also am having a very difficult time denying Jesus. All I know is my life was changed 9 years ago by God, I was reading Genesis 6:5-7 and realized that my actions in life were hurting God, I dont even think he cared or was a God who cared. The rest is where I am having a hard time with, if my life was changed, and I professed Jesus as God, how can what I went through be not real? my life really changed, I did a complete 360 and lived for God. Well after reading that part in Genesis my life was changed. I had no idea what was happening. My brother was a christian and he showed me in the bible were Jesus was God, and I believed that was true because it was in the bible(christian bible). After finding that out I felt an overwhelming amount of love from God. I believed Jesus was God and that he died for me, so i guess it was that love he had for me just gave me the chills, in a good way. Thats what I am struggling with, if that was God that changed my life, and if God is not Jesus, then what was I feeling? If I was worshipping an idol why would God allow that? was it really God at all? I can easily admit that most of the prophecies that christians say are messanic are taken out of context and misused. I see the tricks that christians use to witness, like if one person fills just 8 of these prophecies it is like taking a red quarter and filling the state of Texas with quarters knee high and having one pick and finding the red quarter. I think that is a lie, the prophecies christians use are generally vague, loose, and can be filled by allot of people who live normal daily lives. I can see the contradictions in the "NT" between Paul and the Gospels( Paul abolished the law, while Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it, once saved always saved taught by Paul, but Jesus taught you must live right), the book of Matthew is very shaky. Jesus never wrote any of this stuff, it was atleast 30+ years after his life that this was written, if he was God why wasn't this stuff recorded right then, if he was God why wouldn't he leave any writings or teachings or pass down anything to the discples during his life on earth?

The incredible miracles and raising the dead, nut nowhere in world history is Jesus mentioned by his contempories(outside the NT) except by Josephes and even that most scholars agree was tampered with.

Edited October 31, 2005 by JesusismyLord

[nebula]

Jesus never wrote any of this stuff, it was atleast 30+ years after his life that this was written, if he was God why wasn't this stuff recorded right then, if he was God why wouldn't he leave any writings or teachings or pass down anything to the discples during his life on earth?

The incredible miracles and raising the dead, nut nowhere in world history is Jesus mentioned by his contempories(outside the NT) except by Josephes and even that most scholars agree was tampered with.

I asked you this before, but who would have written it?

I mean, Israel was considered "hick country" (to use modern lingo) by the surrounding nations, especially Greece and Rome.

How many manuscripts outside of the Bible and Josephus are written about the events of Israel?

Jesus' ministry lasted only about 3 years. Then as far as those not His disciples were concerned, He was dead and gone. What non-believer would have written about Him?

It's not like they had the Press in those days, you know?

And as far as "why wouldn't God...?" - how many Old Testament people are mentioned outside of the Bible in any manuscripts or such? Can these Jews who have been teaching you show you Babylonian records of Daniel, for instance?

Or where is the account of the Exodus in Egyptian stone?

See?

And BTW - we don't know how the disciples kept Jesus' words.

What if one of them did record Jesus' words? How would we know? The Gospels we have are letters written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John to someone else. That these letters were kept is a miracle, I think. But what if these authors had a collection of Jesus' teaching that they copied and conglomerated to form these letters, using events from memory to fit the pieces together? (and fitting pieces together by memory would explain why events are out of order from each other in the different Gospels - after all, how many two people will recall events exactly the same?) But these originals were lost by numerous possible means?

[Smalcald]

Jesusismylord.

No you are wrong, the center of the entire bible, is one thing Jesus Christ, that is the point of the bible nothing more, nothing less. That is where we should start. The entire OT has one point, Jesus Christ and we start there. If we do that then Genesis comes together, we no longer have to look at it through a veil as those who do not have Jesus do.

Much of the New Testament was written within ten to fifteen years of the resurrection, and was written by the Apostles of Christ, eyewitnesses and friends of Christ, are they liars? Is Peter a liar? Which is what you seem to be saying. You are not going to come to a saving faith by worrying about the details of the bible, look you said yourself that Christ already worked in your heart, how could that happen without Truth? Keep in mind that most of modern society will seek to tear down the bible, just as Christ and the Apostles predicted thousands of years ago, it simply will never be accepted by society at large. But if Christ did not rise, then the whole thing is in vain anyway as Paul in fact said, if Christ did not rise then our faith is in vain and we are the most pitiful of people, and I agree with him.

"Lewis is wrong. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6"

Well I probably didn't quote it right, but I don't think Lewis was wrong on this. There is no one way to be saved by Christ, except to say that we must have faith in Christ. We don

[yomotalking]

So why not search for God instead of all of this trying to understand the flesh. Ask God for His Spirit. Keep asking and don't stop until you receive what you ask for. Then you will understand everything.

Denise

Now you sound like a mormom, they say read the book of mormom and seek god, if you get a burning feeling then you know god is telling you to follow him. I want answers to these tough objections, why can christains duck the tough stuff, but if its other religions stealing material from the NT, ex:mormons, Islam, Witness then its about finding the facts and what the word says, not how you feel.

A burniong feeling, or a warm assurance?

[Guest shiloh357]

I just don't know what to believe. The more I read on both religions, the more I just sway back and forth.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways. James 1:5-8

I can see the contradictions in the "NT" between Paul and the Gospels( Paul abolished the law, while Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it, once saved always saved taught by Paul, but Jesus taught you must live right), the book of Matthew is very shaky.

No, you are the one who is shaky. You are the one who wavers. Paul and Jesus do not contradict each other at all. Neither one, claimed to abolish the Torah. Paul never abolished, but rather upheld the Torah as God's moral standard. What Paul condemned was legalism which perverts the Torah into a system of works based righteousness.

You need to study the Bible, and stop studying what people say about it.

Oh and BTW, Jesus IS mentioned in history contemporary to his day, outside of the Bible and Josephus.

[WayneB]

This is where I am having a hard time, if we really look at the OT. We can see

God had direct relations with humans

God forgave humans of sin

God would accept outsiders into his family without any mediator

God never condemmed people to hell or was hell spoken of

People didn't need a mediator between them and God

Not true. Have you considered the Book of Job and what it is really about? It is all about Job coming to recognize his need for an arbitrator, one who will stand between him and God [Job 9:33] and then seeing that need fulfilled in his Witness and Advocate [Job 16:19]... his Redeemer [Job 19:25].

I copied something I wrote months back here for your consideration...

What really happened to Job? Was it about a bet? Was it really a test? OR was it really about spiritual GROWTH. See, Job loved God and even sacrificed to God after his children had a party just in case they sinned [Job 1:5]. He was blameless and upright BUT he did not have the righteousness of Heaven? Why? Job was not righteous in God

[nebula]

Oh and BTW, Jesus IS mentioned in history contemporary to his day, outside of the Bible and Josephus.

Go on . . . .