The Problem With Evolution Part 2- Animals

[Still Alive]

15 hours ago, Sparks said:

Catholics seem to believe that you cannot be saved without their church, that your works determines salvation, that you wait until after your death to see if God saved you rather than accepting the Gift during your lifetime, and more.  I cannot believe what they believe.

Oddly, my "super catholic" daughter, once thought it was a cult, and I thought she was too hard on them. But as I discuss with her and her husband what they believe, I realize I've been convinced now that it is a cult - if only because they consider Catholics to be the only "true" Christians. Kinda like Mormonism. 

[Still Alive]

13 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

I feel ya. Jesus seemed to constantly expose the disciples dogmatic views.

"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." Luke 9:54-55

 

 

This is "coincidental". I'm reading through Luke this morning and that very chapter was part of it. And those very verses gave me pause. I sort of felt like Jesus was telling them to "lighten up and don't be so danged judgmental". 😉

Edited September 22, 2023 by Still Alive

[teddyv]

18 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

Oddly, my "super catholic" daughter, once thought it was a cult, and I thought she was too hard on them. But as I discuss with her and her husband what they believe, I realize I've been convinced now that it is a cult - if only because they consider Catholics to be the only "true" Christians. Kinda like Mormonism. 

If you are basing that opinion only on your daughter and husband's words, that's a pretty small sample size.

We've been getting more acquainted with RCC since wife now works for the local Catholic school as an administrator. In discussion with the local priest and her superintendent there has been no such language like "true" Christians. The RCC view Protestants as more like wayward Catholics. But they seem very practical and are very willing.to work together on common goals.

I also appreciate the academic and intellectual rigour of the Catholic Church.

[Still Alive]

4 minutes ago, teddyv said:

If you are basing that opinion only on your daughter and husband's words, that's a pretty small sample size.

We've been getting more acquainted with RCC since wife now works for the local Catholic school as an administrator. In discussion with the local priest and her superintendent there has been no such language like "true" Christians. The RCC view Protestants as more like wayward Catholics. But they seem very practical and are very willing.to work together on common goals.

I also appreciate the academic and intellectual rigour of the Catholic Church.

I used the phrase, "true Christians" only because I'm in "conversational mode". If I were writing an article about it, I'd be a lot more careful in my choice of words. 

And yes, my daughter and her husband are almost "pre-vatican II". She always wears head covering in church and attends mass 7 times a week. I am not "anti-catholic" but just like baptist, it's not for me. But I think it's exactly what she needs - something highly structured. She's a bit autistic and this gives her something to sink her teeth into. Frankly, her new husband is the same way. They say opposites attract, but in this case they are two sides of the same coin. 

[The Barbarian]

19 hours ago, Sparks said:

As for evolution theory, it cannot even make it's own case. 

Evolution is an observed phenomenon.    Evolutionary theory is the theory that explains why it works.    Just so we know you understand what you're discussing, Show us the four points of Darwnian theory and show us which of them is false, with evidence.

 

[Still Alive]

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Catholic Church does not teach this error.   It doesn't teach creationism or polygenism or any other such man-made doctrines.

But if you happen to believe such things, it's not a salvation issue.

 

That's good to know! I'm going to ask them about it when they come to visit us here in Kentucky.

I confess that though I had a hard enough time with the "ever virgin" Mary teaching, this one was way over the top for me.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Still Alive

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Sparks.

This is a VERY important topic; so, consequently, it's important to get it right. The word "saved" is the past tense of the verb, "to save," and "salvation" is the noun formed from that word. This English word is used for the translation of "יָשַׁע" ("yaasha` ", Strong's H3467) in Hebrew, and "σῴζω" ("soozoo", Strong's G4982) in Greek, which was the Greek word used to translate the Hebrew word. The word means "to save; to rescue; to deliver." The Greek form is found in Romans 10:13:

Romans 10:13 (KJV)

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

(Here's the Greek:

13 πᾶς γὰρ ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα Κυρίου σωθήσεται.

and "σωθήσεται," transliterated as "sootheesetai," is the future, indicative, passive form of "soozoo" for the 3rd person, singular, "[s/he] shall be saved; shall be rescued; shall be delivered.")

BUT, this verse in Romans 10:13 is a QUOTATION from Joel 2:32:

Joel 2:32 (KJV)

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

(Here's the Hebrew, read from right to left:

וְהָיָ֗ה כֹּ֧ל אֲשֶׁר־יִקְרָ֛א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהוָ֖ה יִמָּלֵ֑ט כִּ֠י בְּהַר־צִיֹּ֨ון וּבִירוּשָׁלִַ֜ם תִּֽהְיֶ֣ה פְלֵיטָ֗ה כַּֽאֲשֶׁר֙ אָמַ֣ר יְהוָ֔ה וּבַ֨שְּׂרִידִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר יְהוָ֖ה קֹרֵֽא׃

This is transliterated, read left to right, as ...

32 Vhaayaah kol 'asher-yiqraa' bsheem YHWH yimmaaleeT kiy bhar-Tsiyyown uwViYruwshaalaim tihyeh pleeyTaah ka'asher 'aamar YHWH uwVassriydiym 'asher YHWH qoree':

It translates, word-for-word, to ...

32 And-it-shall-be all that-call in-name of-YHWH shall-slip-away for in-mountain-of-Tsiown/Zion and-in-Jerusalem shall-be an-escape like-that has-said YHWH and-in-the-remnant that YHWH shall-call:)

Here's the verse in context:

Joel 2:28-32; 3:1-2 (KJV)

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. 
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

That's a LITTLE different than ...

wouldn't you say? All this that you've written comes from theology based on several passages of Scripture, but it's not what the quotation is talking about!

That's what the New Earth is for! It's where the New Jerusalem shall land. The New Jerusalem will be where all the "hustle and bustle" will be, and the New Earth will be our "backyard." It's also where "all the nations of the world" will be.

If you have countered me in some way, bravo.  But I admit, I am not following your post, especially when you post in other languages.  It's also TL;DR, but thanks for the post.

If you don't think the passage from Romans works, I don't know what to say.  It worked for me and many others, as in millions. 

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Scott Free said:

Yes, I agree. In science it is understood that an idea doesn't need to be true, it just needs to achieve an objective. Like helping in the practice of DNA modification. God as the source of creation is useless information outside of Faith. I do not think they are showing malice, we are simply off their radar.

I don't think 'they' can make a case for evolution theory.  Once you start looking behind the curtain, there is nothing there.

[The Barbarian]

5 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I don't think 'they' can make a case for evolution theory.  Once you start looking behind the curtain, there is nothing there.

Evolution is an observed phenomenon.    Evolutionary theory is the theory that explains why it works.    Just so we know you got it, Show us the scientific definition of evolution, the four points of Darwnian theory and show us which of them is false, with evidence.

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

Oddly, my "super catholic" daughter, once thought it was a cult, and I thought she was too hard on them. But as I discuss with her and her husband what they believe, I realize I've been convinced now that it is a cult - if only because they consider Catholics to be the only "true" Christians. Kinda like Mormonism. 

There is a lot they get wrong, and they set themselves up for failure when they believe only a priest can interpret scripture.  They read from the Catechism, a sort of book of tradition that they hold above the Bible, which is not in agreement with the Bible.  They even changed the 10 commandments, removing one. 

They are nice people for sure, but are being deceived.