The Problem With Evolution Part 2- Animals

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

even the faulty word "formless" sinks YOUR theory since in a 3 dimensional universe,

Your lack of ability to comprehend the definition of “formless” in no way changes the verbiage of Genesis 1.

[FreeGrace]

16 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

FreeGrace said:

even the faulty word "formless" sinks YOUR theory since in a 3 dimensional universe,

Your lack of ability to comprehend the definition of “formless” in no way changes the verbiage of Genesis 1.

I have already explained thoroughly how "formless" is used correctly.  Did you not understand?

It is used only in a comparative sense.  And I gave an excellent example of how it is used in that sense.  Sorry you weren't able to absorb it.

And why do you use the word "verbiage" for Genesis 1?

It seems you are using that word in a pegorative way, as you do in your posts in general.

From the internet:  

noun

• 1.speech or writing that uses too many words or excessively technical expressions: "the basic idea here, despite all the verbiage, is simple"

And, btw, speaking of pejorative language, your constant use of insults, belittling, etc don't help you in any way.  They only reveal your soul's condition.  

It seems you've taken the issue of "earth age" way too personally.  It's not a personal issue at all.  Merely a point of fact.  And you don't have any facts, just a lot of surveys and opinions of a lot of people, all of which proves nothing.

The facts are based on how to determine the meaning of words in another language.  Since there is no context for Gen 1:2, other than God created (bara) the heavens and earth, we HAVE TO look elsewhere to see how certain words are used in THOSE passages.

And that is exactly what I've done.  "tohu wabohu" is very POORLY translated in Gen 1:2 as "formless and void".  Yet, there is no such literal object in God's 3 dimensional universe.  EVERYTHING has a form, whether static or transitory from various kinds of form.

In addition, both Jeremiah and Isaiah used "tohu wabohu" in contexts concerning the total destruction of the land.  That is WHY Jeremiah quoted directly from Gen 1:2.  He understood perfectly what Moses was describing.  He certainly didn't need the very poorly translated English words to understand what Moses wrote.  He KNEW the Hebrew perfectly, which is why He quoted from Gen 1:2.

So we know right up front that the English translation of Gen 1:2 is bogus and doesn't exist.  The earth is a sphere; a 3 dimensional circle (shape).  As are ALL heavenly bodies, whether planets, stars, etc.  And there is cosmic garbage, such as asteroids, etc that have irregular forms.  So what?  All objects in this universe have form.   Whether you gaze through a telescope or a microscope.  No matter how powerful either are.

Everything has form.  You can't get around it.  So you throw mud, in your frustration.

I don't care what you opine about it.  Doesn't matter.  Even if all the polls indicate that the vast majority of believers think the earth is young.  Proves nothing.

What matters are the facts, and your theory has none.  

[The Barbarian]

For those who think the Bible is more about the ages of rocks than about the Rock of Ages, the point of scripture seems different than it does to the rest of Christendom.

 

[Diamond]

On 9/26/2024 at 8:49 AM, FreeGrace said:

All objects in this universe have form.

The Earth formed about 4.6 billion years ago from a cloud of dust and gas surrounding the young Sun¹. Initially, it was extremely hot and mostly molten due to intense volcanic activity and frequent collisions with other celestial bodies².

Over the course of several hundred million years, the planet began to cool. This cooling process allowed the formation of a solid crust and the accumulation of liquid water on the surface³⁴. By around 4.4 billion years ago, the Earth had cooled enough to support a solid crust and possibly even early oceans

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

FreeGrace said:

All objects in this universe have form.

The Earth formed about 4.6 billion years ago from a cloud of dust and gas surrounding the young Sun¹. Initially, it was extremely hot and mostly molten due to intense volcanic activity and frequent collisions with other celestial bodies².

How does this address my point?

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

Over the course of several hundred million years, the planet began to cool. This cooling process allowed the formation of a solid crust and the accumulation of liquid water on the surface³⁴. By around 4.4 billion years ago, the Earth had cooled enough to support a solid crust and possibly even early oceans

And?

Where did you get your information from?  I got mine from the Bible.

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth.

Psa 33:6,9  

6 - By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
9 - For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

These verses describe HOW God created the earth; by speaking it into existence.

So there was no "process" at all.  He spoke, and things came into being.

And again, the universe is 3 dimensional.  There are no examples of objects that are other than 3 dimensional.

So, the English translations of v.2 with "without form and void" is impossible.  every object HAS form.  

[Diamond]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

How does this address my point?

I do one word at a time. Right now we are talking about the meaning of the word "formed". If you would prefer, we could study this word one letter at a time. What good are words if you do not know what they mean. 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Where did you get your information from?  I got mine from the Bible.

Correct we are having a conversation about Genesis 1:2. Although NOTHING in the Bible makes any sense if you do not properly understand Genesis 1:1 or even the first word in the Bible: Beginning. 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

So there was no "process" at all.  He spoke, and things came into being.

What language did He speak? Hebrew or King James English? Frances Collins believes the language of God is DNA. This is his version of Theistic Evolution. 

[Diamond]

On 9/26/2024 at 9:30 PM, The Barbarian said:

For those who think the Bible is more about the ages of rocks than about the Rock of Ages, the point of scripture seems different than it does to the rest of Christendom.

 

Jesus said, "I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out," in Luke 19:40. So this is a story about what the stones have to say.  Stones are often associated with human use and modification. Rocks have a story to tell us also. Esp they started out very hot as a liquid and gas. As they cooled they became what we call a solid. As Cher says, the beat goes on from there. For example, some stones contain fossils. This is why Creation itself has a story to tell. 

Romans 1 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[The Barbarian]

27 minutes ago, Diamond said:

This is why Creation itself has a story to tell. 

It does.   Romans 1:20 explains that creation itself tells us about the majesty and wisdom of God.

But that's not what our salvation hinges on.    It's so simple and yet so hard for us to do.

 

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, The Barbarian said:

It does.   Romans 1:20 explains that creation itself tells us about the majesty and wisdom of God.

But that's not what our salvation hinges on.    It's so simple and yet so hard for us to do.

Salvation hinges on accepting the Gift of Salvation, as stated in Romans. 

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

[The Barbarian]

42 minutes ago, Diamond said:

What language did He speak? Hebrew or King James English? Frances Collins believes the language of God is DNA. This is his version of Theistic Evolution.

Collins is an interesting case; a nonbeliever, who came to God by learning about His creation.    The language of God is order.   When even chaos turns out to have intrinsic order, that reflects His eternal power and Godhead.

Edited September 28, 2024 by The Barbarian