Who is Israel,the servant of God?

[Shilohsfoal]

49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

² And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

³ And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

⁴ Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

⁵ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

 

⁶ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

⁷ Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Should we all bow down and worship the Israeli government because it claims to be  Israel and claims to have gatherd Jacob?

If Israel is the light of the gentiles,then should we all worship the Israeli goverment together because it says it is the light of the world?

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

Here we are in the end times and few people seem to know who Israel actually is.Some worship the Israeli government because it claims to be Israel while others dispise it for it works and deceitfulness.

Some don't even question it.

 

[tim_from_pa]

My stance is that of the book "Judah's Sceptre/Joseph's Birthright" although the King is not presently with Judah. You have two ends of the pendulum's swing: the one end is where most Christians apply all of Israel to the Jew only and disregard that the northern Kingdom never, ever returned yet to the land of Israel since the Assyrian captivity (yet more prophecy is dedicated to them).  The other end of the pendulum's swing is to deny that the Jews are part of Judah as if they are a rogue race and all Israel is still exiled.  I would not know why any group of people would pick up the curses of another, keep their feast days and suffer persecution except they like self punishment. It makes no logical sense.  So needless to say, I'm in the middle.  There are lost tribes, but there are Jews (the tribe of Judah mostly) which are sons of Abraham as well.

[garee]

14 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Here we are in the end times and few people seem to know who Israel actually is.Some worship the Israeli government because it claims to be Israel while others dispise it for it works and deceitfulness.

Some don't even question it.

We are not to worship governments of men.The abomination of desolation. 

The idea of Israel as outward Jews according the thier dying flesh and blood claiming to have gathered Jacob and not our God . .the gatherer. .  it should be looked into .

Many seem to forget there are two kinds of Israel.  Not all Israel is born again Israel. like a two sided coin one side not seen other the flesh of mankind.

We give to the one seen the (Caesars) their side of the coin and the hidden things of God the other side.       

I would think we must go back to the foundation of the doctrine. Change the meaning of one word destroy the integrity of the whole  

Like David said in the Psalms. . . destroy the foundation of the doctrines of God what could his children of light do ????

Jacob is signified as the deceiver. His new born again name Israel which the father renamed Christian (residents of the city of Christ prepared for his wife the church.  renamed in the book of Acts. 

Where before as Jacob who did wrestle against flesh and blood without being yoked with God  (Easu) He tried to become the first born and grabs the heel of Esau .

Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

God had a different idea using  the second born to represent all those born again beginning with Abel the first martyred apostle prophet  

Genesis 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Yoked with him  resisting flesh and blood . . is made easier . .  shared burden 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, garee said:

We are not to worship governments of men.The abomination of desolation. 

The idea of Israel as outward Jews according the thier dying flesh and blood claiming to have gathered Jacob and not our God . .the gatherer. .  it should be looked into .

Many seem to forget there are two kinds of Israel.  Not all Israel is born again Israel. like a two sided coin one side not seen other the flesh of mankind.

We give to the one seen the (Caesars) their side of the coin and the hidden things of God the other side.       

I would think we must go back to the foundation of the doctrine. Change the meaning of one word destroy the integrity of the whole  

Like David said in the Psalms. . . destroy the foundation of the doctrines of God what could his children of light do ????

Jacob is signified as the deceiver. His new born again name Israel which the father renamed Christian (residents of the city of Christ prepared for his wife the church.  renamed in the book of Acts. 

Where before as Jacob who did wrestle against flesh and blood without being yoked with God  (Easu) He tried to become the first born and grabs the heel of Esau .

Genesis 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

God had a different idea using  the second born to represent all those born again beginning with Abel the first martyred apostle prophet  

Genesis 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Yoked with him  resisting flesh and blood . . is made easier . .  shared burden 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

But Ive been assured by some on this board that Israel in the middle east is not of man but is of God.Some even claim that Israel in the middle east rose up out of their graves to injabit that land.They say Israel rose up out of their graves in 1948.

Wouldn't that prove they are the light of the world?

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

My stance is that of the book "Judah's Sceptre/Joseph's Birthright" although the King is not presently with Judah. You have two ends of the pendulum's swing: the one end is where most Christians apply all of Israel to the Jew only and disregard that the northern Kingdom never, ever returned yet to the land of Israel since the Assyrian captivity (yet more prophecy is dedicated to them).  The other end of the pendulum's swing is to deny that the Jews are part of Judah as if they are a rogue race and all Israel is still exiled.  I would not know why any group of people would pick up the curses of another, keep their feast days and suffer persecution except they like self punishment. It makes no logical sense.  So needless to say, I'm in the middle.  There are lost tribes, but there are Jews (the tribe of Judah mostly) which are sons of Abraham as well.

So are they who claim to be Israel ,Israel who is formed in the womb to be the light of the world?

 

³ And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

⁴ Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

⁵ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

Who is this person named Israel?

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[other one]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Should we all bow down and worship the Israeli government because it claims to be  Israel and claims to have gatherd Jacob?

If Israel is the light of the gentiles,then should we all worship the Israeli goverment together because it says it is the light of the world?

 

That's kind of going overboard a bit.   I haven't read anywhere on this board where we are to worship anything but the Godhead, much less any government.   But we should give them the honor for being Yahweh's own tribe in things.  Though they were the enemy of born again Christians, we still should give them the honor they deserve.   They maintained the written word of God throughout history and the linage of the Lord.   If no other reasons we should give them the honor they deserve.

They do need the same salvation that we gentiles need to spend eternity with the Lord so we should expose them to the gospel as we would anyone.

God did say he would bless those that blessed them and curse those who would curse them so there is that to consider also.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

² And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

³ And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

⁴ Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

⁵ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

 

⁶ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

⁷ Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

 

Just as God needed Israel with a Temple for Christ's first Coming, He needs Israel and a Temple for Christ's Second Coming. It is not that God needs a House (for the next Temple does not regard the finished work of Christ and is built by Jews), but at Jesus trial they called for a Gentile king. Now, after 2,000 of hearing the gospel, they stand before a decision - God, or a Gentile king. The question is, will Israel choose "Emmanuel" or "the Beast". Israel's choice will occupy the Holy of Holies of the new Temple. For this all, Israel had to be in existence. The prophets foretold that Israel would return in unbelief. They have no Temple. They have no Priesthood. the Law cannot be practiced without a Temple and the government is illegal.

But God needs Israel for future things and He is wont to to use other nations to achieve His ends. Our God is sovereign and the Master of circumstances. Things are not perfect. But things are running to plan.

[tim_from_pa]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So are they who claim to be Israel ,Israel who is formed in the womb to be the light of the world?

 

³ And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

⁴ Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

⁵ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

Who is this person named Israel?

 

 

 

Yes, that's the nation of Israel who became the Lord's betrothed for the purpose of God's Kingdom and to be a light onto all nations. This was and is the way to usher in God's Kingdom saving all from the fallen world. That will be fully realized in the Millennium.  They reside in the isles. In the meantime, some were blinded as Scripture also says in Isaiah 42:  Who is blind but my servant? or deaf as my messenger I sent?   we know who that is not as Jesus Christ is not blind or deaf.  However, the personification of the Servant, and the perfect one at that, was Jesus Christ in the same chapter that said A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. (c.f. Matthew 12:20)

The apostle Paul stated that Israel will be blinded in part (partial blindness) until the full number of Gentiles comes in, i.e. the fulfillment of Genesis 48:19 i.e. Israel becoming a multitude of nations before the time of the end. These same would recognize their Abrahamic origin and become a light to the nations.  Note they became purveyors of the gospel and many Bible societies so that the Word of the Lord went to remotest parts.