Seventieth Week?Seven Year Tribulation

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Hello all

I have not looked at this thread for some time because I thought the discussion was over. But it looks like I was very wrong.

OA I was reading the book of Ezekial and I noticed something that I would like to share with you. Below are verses where Ezekiel identifies when he recieved the following message from God. I have placed them in the order they have been placed in the book of Ezekial.

Ezekiel 29:1

In the tenth year, in the tenth month, on the twelfth day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Whole Chapter: Ezekiel 29 In context: Ezekiel 29:1-2)

Ezekiel 29:17

And it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Whole Chapter: Ezekiel 29 In context: Ezekiel 29:16-18)

Ezekiel 30:20

And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first month, on the seventh day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Whole Chapter: Ezekiel 30 In context: Ezekiel 30:19-21)

Ezekiel 31:1

Now it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Whole Chapter: Ezekiel 31 In context: Ezekiel 31:1-2)

Ezekiel 32:1

And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Whole Chapter: Ezekiel 32 In context: Ezekiel 32:1-2)

Ezekiel 32:17

It came to pass also in the twelfth year, on the fifteenth day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying:

Can you see what i see? The prophesys delivered to Ezekiel by God have not been put into the book of Ezekiel in the same order that God gave these prophesys to Ezekiel. We read these books and assume that the prophesys are set up in the order that they will occure. But the question must be asked. Is the book of ezekiel cronological?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[OneAccord]

Adstar:

I was noticing this very thing when I read Isaiah this summer and I had a thread going on the Book of Isaiah in the General Discussion for a while, in which I commented much about this.

When I was reading Isaiah, I felt like the verses were snapshots of various events but all shuffled like a deck of cards in no particular order.

Ezekiel didn't strike me quite the same way, it seemed to be more orderly, but yes, chronologically it appears a bit scrambled.

I think God speaks from His eternity and sequencial time doesn't matter as much for Him as for us, neither does lengths of time (a thousand years is as a day).

Also, I understand the Hebrew tenses are very confusing this way, something may have happened, is happening, will happen yet all use the same verb tense.

Blindseeker:

What I get from your post is that Ezekiel's temple is a pattern or blueprint of either a heavenly temple or of Christ Himself, prophesied in order to imprint this in the minds of the Jews who may have lost this during the captivity, and in the passing of time?

[BlindSeeker]

Blindseeker:

What I get from your post is that Ezekiel's temple is a pattern or blueprint of either a heavenly temple or of Christ Himself, prophesied in order to imprint this in the minds of the Jews who may have lost this during the captivity, and in the passing of time?

Well, pretty much.

But before I continue, let me express my apologies OneAccord for allowing this to be dormant so long.

I actually believe Ezekiel was the original pattern for the first temple . . . which was but a shadow, or "blueprint of a heavenly temple" and "of Christ Himself" and the body of believers.

But the reason for his prophesying I feel you have accurately noted.

Peace,

William

[Brad]

Ezek. 42:1,2 and Ezek.41:5-7. The temples design resembles the construction of Noah

[Guest Benny]

I am new here so first I would like to say hello to everyone.

I have read the theory that "he' in Daniel 9:27 was Christ. To me that simply makes no sense, if you leave the rest of that sentence in that verse, as most do not when they quote it, you read that the "he" quoted in that verse sets up the abomination of desolation. It is the antichrist that sets up the abomination of desolation, not Christ. II Thess. 2:3-4

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And to say that the week is divided in time by 2000 years or longer makes no sense either since it is a covenant made by the antichrist and is broken in the middle of a week or week of years.

I believe most of the confusion comes from the false assumption that there is a "7-year" tribulation. From what I have found there is not one place in the Bible that mentions a seven-year tribulation period. That belief is based on an assumption that people have put together by falsely combining a passage in Mt. 24 with this verse.

The passage that should be studied from Mt. 24 is the mention of the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the prophet, and this phrase is used three times in Daniel. Each time this phrase is used, it is speeking of what the antichrist is doing, and it is going over the same event with more knowledge inparted each time.

I can give the scriptures to back it up, but for brevities sake I will simply say this. The tribulation is what the Christians go through to purify them before the resurection/rapture, and this will be the first 3 1/2 years of the week of years. The 'WRATH OF GOD", not the tribulation, is what the bible calls the last 3 1/2 years of this week of years, in which God poors out his anger on an unbelieving world. The abomination of desolation will happen in the middle of the week of years followed by the resurection/rapture a few weeks later. The only people that will be saved after the resurection/rapture will be the 144,000 Jews mentioned in Revelations 7 and Ezekiel 9.

For any Christian that says that it makes no difference when the resurection/rapture takes place is not thinking about what they are saying, and are only decieving themselves and those that hear them and believe them

take care

[Brad]

The begining of the verse refers to the Messiah.

The second half refers to the beast power "Rome" that came after and totally destroy Israel as a nation.

Daniel

27

[Guest Benny]

Brad

I don't know what translation you are using but it is not consistent with the original Hebrew in wording or structure. The KJV is the most correct rendering, which contradicts your conclusions. Literally all the new translations were translated from the corrupted vulgate latin version of the bible and cannot be trusted. Even Websters translation confirms the KJV translation but has its problems in other places spacificly the Greek.

KJV

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Websters

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Anyone reading this verse can see that there is no change in the main person or pronoun "he" in the verse. Your interpretation of this verse is a complete fabrication. You simply cannot make an interpretation that obviously contradicts so many other scriptures in the bible.

Mathew 24 is in chronological order and the reference that Jesus gives to the term abomination of desolation is in the very last days not 34 to 37 years after his death and resurection. If you will notice in the following verses that the gosple is preached to all nations before he even mentions the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke of. This had not even come close to being fulfiled at the time that Rome destroyed the Temple. Besides the abomination of desolation is not talking about a complete destruction of the Temple but a spreading of abominations in the Temple described in Ezekiel 7-9 and the antichrist setting on a throne in the Holy of Holies as described by Paul in II Thess 2:4

Mathew 24

14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25: Behold, I have told you before.

26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32: Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

So when you see these things know that is NEAR, even at the doors. What things? The gosple preached to all nations, the abomination of desolation, etc.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (aproximately 3 1/2 years)

Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (the resurection/rapture)

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

These verses and the ones in Daniel 11 clarify what you don't seem to be grasping. And that is that the abomination of desolation mentioned in Dan 9:27 is at the very end of days just as Jesus said, Paul described, and Daniels vissions revealed.

Harmonizing ALL the scriptures relating to a particular topic in the bible is the key to understanding biblical prophecy. You cannot interpret any scripture so that it comes in conflict or contradicts any other scripture on the same topic.

take care

[Brad]

Brad

I don't know what translation you are using but it is not consistent with the original Hebrew in wording or structure. The KJV is the most correct rendering, which contradicts your conclusions. Literally all the new translations were translated from the corrupted vulgate latin version of the bible and cannot be trusted. Even Websters translation confirms the KJV translation but has its problems in other places spacificly the Greek.

KJV

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Websters

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Anyone reading this verse can see that there is no change in the main person or pronoun "he" in the verse. Your interpretation of this verse is a complete fabrication. You simply cannot make an interpretation that obviously contradicts so many other scriptures in the bible.

Mathew 24 is in chronological order and the reference that Jesus gives to the term abomination of desolation is in the very last days not 34 to 37 years after his death and resurection. If you will notice in the following verses that the gosple is preached to all nations before he even mentions the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke of. This had not even come close to being fulfiled at the time that Rome destroyed the Temple. Besides the abomination of desolation is not talking about a complete destruction of the Temple but a spreading of abominations in the Temple described in Ezekiel 7-9 and the antichrist setting on a throne in the Holy of Holies as described by Paul in II Thess 2:4

Mathew 24

14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25: Behold, I have told you before.

26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32: Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

So when you see these things know that is NEAR, even at the doors. What things? The gosple preached to all nations, the abomination of desolation, etc.

Daniel 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:8  And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Dan 12:9  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Dan 12:10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11  And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (aproximately 3 1/2 years)

Dan 12:12  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (the resurection/rapture)

Dan 12:13  But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

These verses and the ones in Daniel 11 clarify what you don't seem to be grasping. And that is that the abomination of desolation mentioned in Dan 9:27 is at the very end of days just as Jesus said, Paul described, and Daniels vissions revealed.

Harmonizing ALL the scriptures relating to a particular topic in the bible is the key to understanding biblical prophecy. You cannot interpret any scripture so that it comes in conflict or contradicts any other scripture on the same topic.

take care

Benny you maybe right thanks for the info. If it be so then the Messiah will make desolate the overspreading of abominations at the end of time. Makes more sense now. I was read from the New Americian Standard by the way. Anyhow the last half of verse 27 is after the 70 weeks where the first half of verse 27 fits in with it refering to the Messiah. I may have to edit the book I wrote.

KJV

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[Guest Benny]

Brad, I still don't see the justification for seperating the main caracter "he" in the verse from the first half and then someone else in the second half of it. I think we see the abomination of desolation as two different things totally. I see it as the antichrist setting in the temple on a throne pretending to be God (II Thess 2:4) and placing other false Gods in the Temple as well. (Ezekiel 7-9)

take care

[Brad]

Benny

From what I understand it to be is Dan.9:27 is refering to the Messiah. After Christ was crucified that ended all sacrifices in God's eyes. Then because the gospel was open for all nations abominations would just naturally occur. So at the end of time the Messiah would abides in us would make the abominations desolate through believers who are overcomers.

The man of sin who sits in the temple "New Covenant temple being our body" of God is the old man of sin we use to be. God give us a reasonal amount of time to overcome the things mentioned in Rev. 2& 3 that spiritually apply to everyone who believes in Christ and is a child of His. When we walk in victory we walk in Christ with our life hidden in Him as Christ manifests His life through us.