The Hope of Eternal Life

[FreeGrace]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, Buzzard3 said:

"To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God" - Rev 2:7

This is not salvation.  This is a reward for faithful service (conquering).

[FreeGrace]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:56 PM, Buzzard3 said:

FreeGrace doesn't accept that "the tree of life" refers to eternal life; rather, it's merely a "reward".  An orange or apple tree, maybe, installed in one's Heavenly backyard.  Or a money tree?

You can say "merely" now.  But in eternity, it will be a very big deal.  

Eternal life is given the MOMENT one becomes a believer.  John 5:24

Or, don't believe what Jesus said.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

  FreeGrace said:

The command to be obedient is never attached to salvation

Hebrews 5:

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience

by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of

eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

The Greek "obey" has the sense of listening attentively and being responsive to what is heard.  iow, to believe in Him as their Savior.

Again, John 5:24 is clear;  “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 - Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

[Mr. M]

22 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The Greek "obey" has the sense of listening attentively and being responsive to what is heard.  iow, to believe in Him as their Savior.

This is out of line with the scriptures, for life in Christ goes way beyond simply believing in Him as the Savior. He is Lord.

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembered the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The very idea that the Gospel of Salvation does not require obedience comes from the spirit of lawlessness. Simple belief is not truth...Jesus must be the Lord of your life, by the Holy Spirit, which requires obedience to that faith by which you believe you are saved.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confess what???

 

30 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Again, John 5:24 is clear;  “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 - Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

These verses you quote, with your previous statements, imply that your understanding "to have eternal life" is some future hope, assurance, etc...

You may certainly abide in that belief, but you should consider this possibility:

The abundant Life In Christ is available now for all who believe, and abide in Christ. This is not a "die and go to heaven" promise, it is citizenship in heaven now, and forever.

[Willa]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

 

The Amplified version adds trust in, rely upon, adhere to.

G4100   (Word Study)

πιστεύω.  pisteúō; fut. pisteúsō, from pístis (G4102), faith. To believe, have faith in, trust. NT meanings:

[FreeGrace]

6 hours ago, Willa said:

  FreeGrace said:

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

The Amplified version adds trust in, rely upon, adhere to.

G4100   (Word Study)

πιστεύω.  pisteúō; fut. pisteúsō, from pístis (G4102), faith. To believe, have faith in, trust. NT meanings:

Yes, 'believe' means all these.  Not sure what "adhere to" means or implies.

Believing and trusting are synonymous.  

[Willa]

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes, 'believe' means all these.  Not sure what "adhere to" means or implies.

Believing and trusting are synonymous.  

It means to stick to Jesus, to stay with Him.

[farouk]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

It means to stick to Jesus, to stay with Him.

@Willa I do love Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

[Mr. M]

9 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes, 'believe' means all these.  Not sure what "adhere to" means or implies.

Believing and trusting are synonymous.  

 

39 minutes ago, Willa said:

It means to stick to Jesus, to stay with Him.

A better word used heavily in the Gospel of John,

and the first epistle of John is 'abide';

John 15:4-10 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

I have made this observation before, and will include it here; people who tend to put heavy emphasis of Grace often have little to say about Truth.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

1 John 3:6-9 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

14-19 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.

Our assurance is not in Grace alone, but in knowing the Truth.

Ephesians 4:21-24 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Edited April 8 by Mr. M

[FreeGrace]

53 minutes ago, Willa said:

It means to stick to Jesus, to stay with Him.

Then, different from believing/trusting.  OK.  Yes, all believers should definitely "stick with Jesus".