“The Righteousness of the Law”

[WordSword]

Concerning man, the purpose of the Law was two-fold: manifest guilt (Rom 3:20, 21; Gal 3:10) and direct one to the sin solution (Gal 5:24, 25)! -NC
    
Romans 8:4: “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.” By the righteousness of the law, is not meant the righteousness of the ceremonial law, though that was fulfilled by Christ; but of the moral law, which requires holiness of nature, righteousness of life, and death in case of disobedience; active righteousness, or obedience to the precepts of the law, is designed here. This is what the law requires; obedience to the commands of it is properly righteousness; and by Christ's obedience to it we are made righteous, and this gives the title to eternal life: now this is said to be "fulfilled in us"; this is not fulfilled by us in our own persons, nor can it be; could it, where would be the weakness of the law? man might then be justified by it, and so the grace of God, and the righteousness of Christ, must be set aside: there never was any mere man that could fulfil it; for obedience to it must not only be performed perfectly, but with intenseness of mind and spirit; a man must be sinless in thought, word, and deed; and this would be to put man upon a level with Adam in a state of innocence, and the angels in heaven: nor is this to be understood of any righteousness inherent in man.

“Internal holiness is never called the righteousness of the law; and could it be thought to be righteousness, it can never be reckoned the whole righteousness of the law: and though it is a fruit of Christ's death, it is the work of the Spirit, and is neither the whole, nor any part of our producing justification: but this is to be understood of the righteousness of the law fulfilled by Christ, and imputed to us; Christ has fulfilled the whole righteousness of the law, all the requirements of it; this he has done in the room and stead of his people; and is imputed to them, by virtue of a federal union between him and them, he being the head, and they his members; and the law being fulfilled by him, it is reckoned all one as it was fulfilled in, or if by them; and hence they are personally, perfectly, and legally justified; and this is the end of Christ's being sent, of sin being laid on him, and condemned in him. The descriptive character of the persons, who appear to be interested in this blessing, is the same with that in Romans 8:1.” —John Gill

 

 

 

“The Righteousness of the Law”

What more perplexes a godly person than the very thought of God changing His mind (which He never needs to do—NC)? What difficulty greater than the notion that He could, as it were, unsay or undo what He had previously laid sown? Plus, I think there ought to be great delicacy in dealing with souls where we find there is a godly jealousy as to this, even though it may be ignorance, and not without prejudice. But still it was the evident fact, that what God set up for a specific purpose in Israel (the Law—NC) never fully reflected His own mind (nor was it intended so, he wanted to reveal all His mind through Christ and Paul—NC). Eternal truth, breaking through the clouds and shadows of Judaism, shone out in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and is now verified in experience as well as faith by the Spirit’s work in believers.

In a word, it was never the purpose of God to reveal Himself and bring out all His mind in connection with the Jews (because He knew most would not accept Christ—NC), but with the Church. Christianity and not Judaism is the expression of the Father’s heart and mind. The Lord Jesus Himself, properly speaking, is “the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15); and Christianity is the practical present result. It is the application of the life, mind and affections of the Lord Jesus to the heart and walk of those who are brought to the Father; and this, founded on His work and correspondent to His place in heaven by the Spirit sent down.

All through the Jewish system, as well as before it, there were souls waiting for the “Seed,” the Messiah (Gal 3:16); and the only persons that ever honored God in the Jewish system were those who, by faith, were above the system. Those alone walked blameless (but not sinless—NC) in the various ordinances of the law who looked for the Messiah. It was this expectation, given by the Spirit of God, which lifted them above the earthly thoughts, the groveling desires, and the selfish nature. It raised them above themselves, if one may say so, as well as above their fellows—those only honored God even in the outward ordinances of Israel.

It is the same principle now as ever, but in a spiritual way; because nothing is more certain than that the righteousness of the eternal law of God (the whole will of God revealed—NC) is fulfilled in the saint of God, the Christian. But how is it fulfilled? Never by endeavoring to keep the law; it cannot be fulfilled in that way. In point of fact, as we know, the very men that were thus “zealous for the law” (Act 21:20) themselves were the greatest and bitterest enemies of the Lord Jesus. We know it was fleshly pride as to the law which blinded them into the delusion that even our blessed Lord Himself did not sufficiently honor it. We easily gather that Paul was taxed with the same reproach. Stephen too was stoned to death because of this fertile and fatal practice.

So that we may lay it down as a fixed point, that the men who put the ordinances, or the outward regulations of God, in the place of God and the Lord Jesus Himself, are men that never keep it (Mat 15:9); even as Stephen told the Jews that they received the law by the disposition of angels (Act 7:53), and had not kept it. These were the men whose voices were the loudest about it to those who really honored God in the law as well as in the faith of the Messiah. Take every believer—I do not say on every occasion; for there is, sad to say, the danger of our old nature working, and that nature neither believes in the Lord Jesus, but is a lawless, Christ-denying thing; the flesh is enmity against God Himself, and that nature working its own way always dishonors God.

But take the born again Christian—not when he is yielding to the old man (which all occasionally do—NC); take him where, in truth alone, so to speak, we can rightly think of a believer as such—in the exercise of his faith, in the manifestation of the new life which the grace of God has given him; and what is the character of his life? It cleaves to the Father, it delights in His Word, it loves His will, and it is attracted by whatever manifest Him. All proves that the believer loves the Father in heart and soul, loves Him better than himself, for he hates his old life (Jhn 12:25; Luk 14:26), and is ready to own, just so far as faith is in operation, his own folly, his frequent and shameful failure, while he seeks to justify and cleave to his Father, and delights to make Him known.

How comes this? It is that divine principle of resurrection, new-creation life, and the energy of the indwelling Spirit of God manifesting the life of the Lord Jesus, acting in the new man which enjoys each thing that flows from and manifests the Father, and is the exercise of the new nature which we derive from our Father. Again, the believer, just in proportion as he has the Lord Jesus before his soul, walks in the Spirit according to the will of the Father. If he has not the Lord Jesus before him, it is as if he had no new nature; life there is, but it is only Christ Jesus who maintains, manifests and brings it out, giving it its full exercise and scope.

The believer’s heart goes out towards misery, yea, towards poor guilty and lost sinners. Flesh despises and hates, or is indifferent; but the new nature, under the Spirit’s power, goes out in compassion and desire for another’s blessing. There, I say, is love again; and thus you have the two great moral principles: love to God, and love to man. The believer, and the believer alone, walks in them; if he has the risen Lord Jesus in his eye, he has them in his heart, and the Holy Spirit strengthens him to walk accordingly. “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law” (Ro 13:10).

It is thus that the “righteousness of the law is fulfilled” (“in” but not by us, but Christ—NC) in those who walk after the Spirit (putting the law behind and moving forward to the Lord Jesus—NC). The Spirit of God is careful to show it is fulfilled in them that walk after Him, not in such as only stand for the law. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” (Gal 5:16; Ro 8:3, 4).

The attempt to mix the forms and Spirit of grace with the old ways of Judaism, would only end—not in mending Judaism nor in preserving Christianity, but—in the ruin of both. What Satan aimed at was to mingle the old Jewish ordinances with Christian truth (Mat 9:17), and this precisely has been the issue in the history of Christendom.

—J N Darby

 

 

 

 

MJS daily devotional for September 20

"Do not be afraid of the Father’s training school. He both knows His scholars, as to what they are, and He knows for what service they are to be fitted. A jeweler will take more pains over a gem than over a piece of glass; but the one he takes most pains over is longest under discipline and most severely dealt with. Once finished, however, the burnish never tarnishes, the brightness never dims. So with us. If we are placed, at times, as in a furnace, it is not merely for earthly service, but for eternity. May you so appreciate the plans of your Father that you can triumphantly glory in the love that subjects you to such discipline, though the trial itself be sharp and to the flesh hard to bear.”

—James Hudson Taylor (1832-1905)
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/day/2023/09/20/
 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:27 AM, WordSword said:

Romans 8:4: “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.”

Here's how Romans 8:4 actually reads....

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Details matter!






 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Stan Murff

[WordSword]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:40 PM, Stan Murff said:

Here's how Romans 8:4 actually reads....

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Details matter!

Hi, and appreciate your reply! Only the Lord Jesus could "fulfill" the righteousness of the Law because it required a sinless nature; and this is imputed to believers. Thus, it is not fulfilled "by us," but "in us"! 

The passage intent is thus per NKJV: “that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us.” "The righteous requirement" is not just obeying the Law, but obeying it without sin, or else it's still tainted and useless; which is our state, until we leave here!

 

God's blessings to your Family!

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

None the less.... it's not going to be fulfilled in us is we don't.... walk after the spirit and not after the flesh.

It is in error to ignore and to not acknowledge the Lord has called His people to be led by the Spirit and to forsake being led by the flesh as that is walking and living in sin.

We are called to put off the old man and put on the new man, to put on Christ!

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laboroers with Him.  He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we MIGHT be made the righteousness of God in him.


 

 

[WordSword]

21 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

None the less.... it's not going to be fulfilled in us is we don't.... walk after the spirit and not after the flesh.

True what you say; and all who are reborn will walk after the Spirit, because "God works in you both to desire and do His good pleasure (Phl 2:13). This is a true statement for all believers and is a permanent state of being. Those who claim to be believers and result in leaving God never experienced His "work" in them, because they were never saved.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 hours ago, WordSword said:

Those who claim to be believers and result in leaving God never experienced His "work" in them, because they were never saved.

Jesus doesn't say that... In Mark 4:13-20, Jesus indicated that ALL received the Word initially but some fell away.
The Lord never says those that fell away never received God’s Word.

Sure it's possible that today there are some false conversions, but saying anybody who falls away from the Lord never got saved is not true

There is scripture that speaks of believers falling away in the end times.  One cannot fall
away from something one had not ever received in the first place.

1 Timothy 4:1,2

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

*Mockers are one claiming we can sow to the flesh (sin) and not reap corruption (see Galatians 6:7,8)



 

[TheBlade]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:27 AM, WordSword said:

Concerning man, the purpose of the Law was two-fold: manifest guilt (Rom 3:20, 21; Gal 3:10) and direct one to the sin solution (Gal 5:24, 25)! -NC
    
Romans 8:4: “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.” By the righteousness of the law, is not meant the righteousness of the ceremonial law, though that was fulfilled by Christ; but of the moral law, which requires holiness of nature, righteousness of life, and death in case of disobedience; active righteousness, or obedience to the precepts of the law, is designed here. This is what the law requires; obedience to the commands of it is properly righteousness; and by Christ's obedience to it we are made righteous, and this gives the title to eternal life: now this is said to be "fulfilled in us"; this is not fulfilled by us in our own persons, nor can it be; could it, where would be the weakness of the law? man might then be justified by it, and so the grace of God, and the righteousness of Christ, must be set aside: there never was any mere man that could fulfil it; for obedience to it must not only be performed perfectly, but with intenseness of mind and spirit; a man must be sinless in thought, word, and deed; and this would be to put man upon a level with Adam in a state of innocence, and the angels in heaven: nor is this to be understood of any righteousness inherent in man.

“Internal holiness is never called the righteousness of the law; and could it be thought to be righteousness, it can never be reckoned the whole righteousness of the law: and though it is a fruit of Christ's death, it is the work of the Spirit, and is neither the whole, nor any part of our producing justification: but this is to be understood of the righteousness of the law fulfilled by Christ, and imputed to us; Christ has fulfilled the whole righteousness of the law, all the requirements of it; this he has done in the room and stead of his people; and is imputed to them, by virtue of a federal union between him and them, he being the head, and they his members; and the law being fulfilled by him, it is reckoned all one as it was fulfilled in, or if by them; and hence they are personally, perfectly, and legally justified; and this is the end of Christ's being sent, of sin being laid on him, and condemned in him. The descriptive character of the persons, who appear to be interested in this blessing, is the same with that in Romans 8:1.” —John Gill

 

 

 

“The Righteousness of the Law”

What more perplexes a godly person than the very thought of God changing His mind (which He never needs to do—NC)? What difficulty greater than the notion that He could, as it were, unsay or undo what He had previously laid sown? Plus, I think there ought to be great delicacy in dealing with souls where we find there is a godly jealousy as to this, even though it may be ignorance, and not without prejudice. But still it was the evident fact, that what God set up for a specific purpose in Israel (the Law—NC) never fully reflected His own mind (nor was it intended so, he wanted to reveal all His mind through Christ and Paul—NC). Eternal truth, breaking through the clouds and shadows of Judaism, shone out in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and is now verified in experience as well as faith by the Spirit’s work in believers.

In a word, it was never the purpose of God to reveal Himself and bring out all His mind in connection with the Jews (because He knew most would not accept Christ—NC), but with the Church. Christianity and not Judaism is the expression of the Father’s heart and mind. The Lord Jesus Himself, properly speaking, is “the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15); and Christianity is the practical present result. It is the application of the life, mind and affections of the Lord Jesus to the heart and walk of those who are brought to the Father; and this, founded on His work and correspondent to His place in heaven by the Spirit sent down.

All through the Jewish system, as well as before it, there were souls waiting for the “Seed,” the Messiah (Gal 3:16); and the only persons that ever honored God in the Jewish system were those who, by faith, were above the system. Those alone walked blameless (but not sinless—NC) in the various ordinances of the law who looked for the Messiah. It was this expectation, given by the Spirit of God, which lifted them above the earthly thoughts, the groveling desires, and the selfish nature. It raised them above themselves, if one may say so, as well as above their fellows—those only honored God even in the outward ordinances of Israel.

It is the same principle now as ever, but in a spiritual way; because nothing is more certain than that the righteousness of the eternal law of God (the whole will of God revealed—NC) is fulfilled in the saint of God, the Christian. But how is it fulfilled? Never by endeavoring to keep the law; it cannot be fulfilled in that way. In point of fact, as we know, the very men that were thus “zealous for the law” (Act 21:20) themselves were the greatest and bitterest enemies of the Lord Jesus. We know it was fleshly pride as to the law which blinded them into the delusion that even our blessed Lord Himself did not sufficiently honor it. We easily gather that Paul was taxed with the same reproach. Stephen too was stoned to death because of this fertile and fatal practice.

So that we may lay it down as a fixed point, that the men who put the ordinances, or the outward regulations of God, in the place of God and the Lord Jesus Himself, are men that never keep it (Mat 15:9); even as Stephen told the Jews that they received the law by the disposition of angels (Act 7:53), and had not kept it. These were the men whose voices were the loudest about it to those who really honored God in the law as well as in the faith of the Messiah. Take every believer—I do not say on every occasion; for there is, sad to say, the danger of our old nature working, and that nature neither believes in the Lord Jesus, but is a lawless, Christ-denying thing; the flesh is enmity against God Himself, and that nature working its own way always dishonors God.

But take the born again Christian—not when he is yielding to the old man (which all occasionally do—NC); take him where, in truth alone, so to speak, we can rightly think of a believer as such—in the exercise of his faith, in the manifestation of the new life which the grace of God has given him; and what is the character of his life? It cleaves to the Father, it delights in His Word, it loves His will, and it is attracted by whatever manifest Him. All proves that the believer loves the Father in heart and soul, loves Him better than himself, for he hates his old life (Jhn 12:25; Luk 14:26), and is ready to own, just so far as faith is in operation, his own folly, his frequent and shameful failure, while he seeks to justify and cleave to his Father, and delights to make Him known.

How comes this? It is that divine principle of resurrection, new-creation life, and the energy of the indwelling Spirit of God manifesting the life of the Lord Jesus, acting in the new man which enjoys each thing that flows from and manifests the Father, and is the exercise of the new nature which we derive from our Father. Again, the believer, just in proportion as he has the Lord Jesus before his soul, walks in the Spirit according to the will of the Father. If he has not the Lord Jesus before him, it is as if he had no new nature; life there is, but it is only Christ Jesus who maintains, manifests and brings it out, giving it its full exercise and scope.

The believer’s heart goes out towards misery, yea, towards poor guilty and lost sinners. Flesh despises and hates, or is indifferent; but the new nature, under the Spirit’s power, goes out in compassion and desire for another’s blessing. There, I say, is love again; and thus you have the two great moral principles: love to God, and love to man. The believer, and the believer alone, walks in them; if he has the risen Lord Jesus in his eye, he has them in his heart, and the Holy Spirit strengthens him to walk accordingly. “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law” (Ro 13:10).

It is thus that the “righteousness of the law is fulfilled” (“in” but not by us, but Christ—NC) in those who walk after the Spirit (putting the law behind and moving forward to the Lord Jesus—NC). The Spirit of God is careful to show it is fulfilled in them that walk after Him, not in such as only stand for the law. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” (Gal 5:16; Ro 8:3, 4).

The attempt to mix the forms and Spirit of grace with the old ways of Judaism, would only end—not in mending Judaism nor in preserving Christianity, but—in the ruin of both. What Satan aimed at was to mingle the old Jewish ordinances with Christian truth (Mat 9:17), and this precisely has been the issue in the history of Christendom.

—J N Darby

 

 

 

 

MJS daily devotional for September 20

"Do not be afraid of the Father’s training school. He both knows His scholars, as to what they are, and He knows for what service they are to be fitted. A jeweler will take more pains over a gem than over a piece of glass; but the one he takes most pains over is longest under discipline and most severely dealt with. Once finished, however, the burnish never tarnishes, the brightness never dims. So with us. If we are placed, at times, as in a furnace, it is not merely for earthly service, but for eternity. May you so appreciate the plans of your Father that you can triumphantly glory in the love that subjects you to such discipline, though the trial itself be sharp and to the flesh hard to bear.”

—James Hudson Taylor (1832-1905)
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/day/2023/09/20/
 

Great post thank you. Only because Stan (Bless him) said something I wonder how many got upset (Stan didn't) when Christ didn't finish reading. He rightly divided but as I kept reading you said "it is the work of the Spirit". So take out all the "chapters" and verse 1 and so on. Go for it.. where you going to stop read at? So in truth what was posted was not wrong at all.

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

Jesus doesn't say that... In Mark 4:13-20, Jesus indicated that ALL received the Word initially but some fell away.
The Lord never says those that fell away never received God’s Word.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! All four grounds received the seed of the Word. Many misunderstand the "sowing" of the seed of the Word. It only involves the planting of the seed, and not if and how it grows. As we know, only one of the planted seeds grew and "brought forth fruit." The other three grounds did not give the seed a chance to grow and produce salvation (fruit).

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

1 hour ago, WordSword said:

It only involves the planting of the seed

No, Jesus said they "RECEIVED" it.... they got saved as they did in fact bare fruit initially!

Then they fell away later once persecution, affliction, cares of this world, lusts of other things, or deceitfulness of riches ENTERED IN and choked the Word so they ended up being unfruitful

The Lord never says those that fell away never received God’s Word.

There is scripture that speaks of believers falling away in the end times.  One cannot fall
away from something one had not ever received in the first place.

1 Timothy 4:1,2

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

*Mockers are one claiming we can sow to the flesh (sin) and not reap corruption (see Galatians 6:7,8)



 

 

[WordSword]

13 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

No, Jesus said they "RECEIVED" it.... they got saved as they did in fact bare fruit initially!

The three that were not on good ground were rotting fruit which was not of God but man. Here's one example, and I recommend viewing the rest of those verses with this commentator:

Verse 15. "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown,...." Such hearers are represented by the way side, in which the seed fell; who, coming where the Gospel is preached, stop awhile and hear it, and so are only casual and accidental hearers of it:

but when they have heard; and indeed whilst they are hearing, and before they are well got out of the place of hearing,

Satan cometh immediately and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. The devil, signified by the fowl, or fowls of the air, immediately takes notice of such hearers, and is very busy with them; filling their minds with other things suitable to their dispositions, and setting before them other objects, whereby their minds are, at once, taken off from what they have been hearing; so that all that they have observed, and laid up in their memories, is lost at once, and never thought of any more.

https://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary/john-gill/mark/4