Question for those who believe Gog invades the promised land before the millinium

[Shilohsfoal]

If you believe Gog invades the promised land before the millinium,do you claim it is before the Jews fall by the edge of the sword and led away captive or after?

Luke 21

²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

²³ But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

[George]

@Shilohsfoal  I believe the better way to view the prophecy of Gog / Magog is understanding the dual fulfillment nature of the prophecy.

I started to explain this concept in this video ... https://worthy.tv/purim-gog-and-magog-where-are-we-prophetically/

Around the 20 minute mark is when I talk about Gog / Magog ... I believe it'll help you understand the passage as its laid out in Scripture,

Be blessed,

George

[Shilohsfoal]

12 minutes ago, George said:

@Shilohsfoal  I believe the better way to view the prophecy of Gog / Magog is understanding the dual fulfillment nature of the prophecy.

I started to explain this concept in this video ... https://worthy.tv/purim-gog-and-magog-where-are-we-prophetically/

Around the 20 minute mark is when I talk about Gog / Magog ... I believe it'll help you understand the passage as its laid out in Scripture,

Be blessed,

George

 

I do not believe in a duel prophecy concerning Gog.I simply believe the word of God.

In Ezekiel 38,after Israel has been brought up out of their graves in Ezekiel 37 ,that every one of them will dwell safely.

 

⁸ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

Yet Jesus says that before he comes and gathers his elect and raises the dead,that the Jews in Israel will fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations.Seeing God is never wrong,the jews in the following verses can not be the peaceful people who dwell safely in israel.in Ezekiel 38.These people in Luke 21 are not safe at all.They are doomed to destruction.

 

Luke 21

²³ But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

 

When the Islamic jihad of the end times takes place and all of the Jews in Israel fall by the sword and are led away captive as Jesus said will happen,alot of people on this board are going to be stunned that God didn't save them.

Then Jesus will raise Israel up out of their graves as Ezekiel said in Ezekiel 37 and they will live in the land of Israel .

 

Ezekiel 37

⁷ So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

⁸ And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

⁹ Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

¹⁰ So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

¹¹ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

 

¹² Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

¹³ And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

¹⁴ And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

After this resurection,Israel will live in the land of Israel which was promised to Christ and they shall have a king over them forever.No.one will ever be able to take the kingdom away from them ,ever.

 

²⁵ And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, George said:

@Shilohsfoal  I believe the better way to view the prophecy of Gog / Magog is understanding the dual fulfillment nature of the prophecy.

I started to explain this concept in this video ... https://worthy.tv/purim-gog-and-magog-where-are-we-prophetically/

Around the 20 minute mark is when I talk about Gog / Magog ... I believe it'll help you understand the passage as its laid out in Scripture,

Be blessed,

George

I do see dual fulfillment prophesies in many places like the AoD which was an issue with Antiochus and Jason the Jewish High Priest and will appear again under the Anti-Christ and False Prophet (Jewish High Priest). In the book of Revelation however I think that God Himself wrote this, gave it to Jesus, who gave it to John in visions, words of Angels and in so doing used the Old Testament to weave in a storyline of the future. The first 5 Seals are all about the Anti-Christ, but we only get four horses because the Zechariah 4 horses was used as a "story guide of sorts". I think God took Rev. 17 straight out of Dan. 5. We get the fall of Babylon but in Rev. 17 its referring unto all of the Harlot false religions falling or being judged. 

I think you correctly note the Rev. 20 Gog & Magog is not the real God and Magog. Its just being used by God because it matches up with how Gog & Magog are destroyed, by fire. If in the end they were not destroyed by fire God would have used a different old testament prophesy. 

Stay safe George. We know our victory draws nigh. Amen.

[Montana Marv]

Ezk 39 KJV 2 - 5/6ths of this Gog, Magog horde will be destroyed. 38:19 - At that time there will be a great earthquake in the land.  Rev 20:9 - But fire came down and devoured them (all).  No earthquake.

Ezk 39:9 - Those of Israel will burn the weapons of war for 7 years.  v.14 - Those of Israel will bury the dead for 7 Months  v.25 - I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and will have compassion on all the people of Israel.  v.28 - Then they will know that I am the Lord their God.

So according to your timeline Jacob is still in captivity after this Gog, Magog invasion.  Yet Rev 20 says all who are in Gods camp are present and accounted for, none are in captivity.

The according to your time line one of two things must happen;  After the destruction of the Gog, Magog horde, there is a 7 year period of burning the weapons of war. before the New Heavens and the New Earth.   OR there is a carryover of burning these weapons of war for 7 years on the New Earth, which is impossible; for the Old cannot be part of the New.

There are two and distinct Gog, Magog wars.  One before the 70th Week; and the final one at the end of the Mill.

We are just waiting for this present war in Israel; for Israel to drive all who would do harm to them out from Israel.  Then those of Israel can live in safety without walls, gates and bars within Israel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Ezk 39 KJV 2 - 5/6ths of this Gog, Magog horde will be destroyed. 38:19 - At that time there will be a great earthquake in the land.  Rev 20:9 - But fire came down and devoured them (all).  No earthquake.

Ezk 39:9 - Those of Israel will burn the weapons of war for 7 years.  v.14 - Those of Israel will bury the dead for 7 Months  v.25 - I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and will have compassion on all the people of Israel.  v.28 - Then they will know that I am the Lord their God.

So according to your timeline Jacob is still in captivity after this Gog, Magog invasion.  Yet Rev 20 says all who are in Gods camp are present and accounted for, none are in captivity.

The according to your time line one of two things must happen;  After the destruction of the Gog, Magog horde, there is a 7 year period of burning the weapons of war. before the New Heavens and the New Earth.   OR there is a carryover of burning these weapons of war for 7 years on the New Earth, which is impossible; for the Old cannot be part of the New.

There are two and distinct Gog, Magog wars.  One before the 70th Week; and the final one at the end of the Mill.

We are just waiting for this present war in Israel; for Israel to drive all who would do harm to them out from Israel.  Then those of Israel can live in safety without walls, gates and bars within Israel.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

So you avoiding the question.Care to explain  where you are going to place your coming Gog invasion of Israel?Is it before Israel is killed by the sword and led away captive into all countries or after they have been killed by the sword and led away captive?Here is the opening question in case you overlooked it.

 

 

 

If you believe Gog invades the promised land before the millinium,do you claim it is before the Jews fall by the edge of the sword and led away captive or after?

Luke 21

²⁰ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

²¹ Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

²³ But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

[Dennis1209]

I am learning not to be dogmatic of my eschatological thoughts and assumptions. I surmise Gog is some title such as Leader or Prince; he could be human or demonic. I have little doubt Magog is a land area, confirmed by Josephus and Herodotus, as well as the historical Ramparts of Magog, the Great Wall of China.

I have viewed two uprisings of this Gog-Magog, the first before the Tribulation and the second at the end of the one-thousand-year reign of Christ. The objectives of the two appear to be different. The first invasion to take a spoil led by the king of the North, presumed to be Russia. Russia’s significant alleys identified today in the Bible are all Muslim nations (Iran, Turkey, Sudan, Libya, and Ethiopia). Few dispute these modern-day ancient country identities.

Logically thinking, it takes seven years to clean up the mess; Israel burns the weapons of war as fuel for seven years. This cleanup sounds nuclear, biological, or chemical (NBC). The description of this clean-up follows military SOP to a tee (HAZMAT).

If my thoughts are accurate, the first Gog-Magog invasion must happen a minimum of 3.5 years before the abomination, which causes desolation (AOD) in the middle of the seven-year Tribulation. At mid-Tribulation (the time of Jacobs's trouble), when everyone flees for their lives crossing the Jordan River (maybe to Petra, Jordan), who will be around or care to continue burning those weapons of war for fuel? I doubt it for several reasons, but I do not imagine Israel continuing to burn those weapons into the millennium, though possible.

The signs of this first Gog-Magog invasion should be unmistakable and close. Not to mention this latest Hamas invasion and the first declaration of Israeli war since the 1973 Yom Kippur War, potentially associated with Psalm 83.

Never before has Russia had any presence or involvement in the Middle East. Never before has the king of the north had any treaties, alliances, military cooperation, or pacts with the nations listed in Ezekiel 38. The military buildup, ports, airbases, weapons of war on Israel's northern border in Syria, and those there hostile toward Israel. The hundreds of Israeli air sorties conducted in and around Damascus, Syria, reek of the near prophetic picture.

The latter Gog-Magog uprising as I see it, is a rebellion against the One who ruled with a rod of iron for 1,000 years in peace, shortly after Satan is released for the final curtain call.

[Revelation Man]

14 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I am learning not to be dogmatic of my eschatological thoughts and assumptions. I surmise Gog is some title such as Leader or Prince; he could be human or demonic. I have little doubt Magog is a land area, confirmed by Josephus and Herodotus, as well as the historical Ramparts of Magog, the Great Wall of China.

 

Wow, I wrote a blog on another site speaking about how the name Magog was used by two different historians 100  years on each side of Ezekiel, and how it was used in reference to the Ramparts of Magog, the Great Wall of China was thus built to protect the Ramparts from Magog. Thus Gog was the "future leader". 

19 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have viewed two uprisings of this Gog-Magog, the first before the Tribulation and the second at the end of the one-thousand-year reign of Christ. The objectives of the two appear to be different. The first invasion to take a spoil led by the king of the North, presumed to be Russia. Russia’s significant alleys identified today in the Bible are all Muslim nations (Iran, Turkey, Sudan, Libya, and Ethiopia). Few dispute these modern-day ancient country identities.

 

Mostly they argue against Russia being Moschech, (whatever the name) but like you I think Magog refers to those great horse fighters just over the Steep mountains. The other players are pretty much agreed upon. 

21 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Logically thinking, it takes seven years to clean up the mess; Israel burns the weapons of war as fuel for seven years. This cleanup sounds nuclear, biological, or chemical (NBC). The description of this clean-up follows military SOP to a tee (HAZMAT).

 

I admit, I used to see this 7 Year and say, well this battle has to happen at least 3.5 years before the 70th week, because Israel are not in control for the 1260 day (3.5 year) rule of the Anti-Christ, so if they clean up for "7 years" that cleanup must start 3.5 years before the 70th week, because the lose control in the middle of the week. I have since seen how God uses numbers, the 7 can just mean Divine Completion. Or God cleans it up Himself via His divine will, and He does it completely. 

25 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

The latter Gog-Magog uprising as I see it, is a rebellion against the One who ruled with a rod of iron for 1,000 years in peace, shortly after Satan is released for the final curtain call.

Agreed.

[AdHoc]

There is a very god reason for Magog's rebellion at the end of the Millennium.

Man's God-given duty in Genesis 1:26-28 was (i) be like God without being God, (ii) subdue (which implies a rebellion in progress), and (iii) rule the earth and its immediate environs. The Second Adam achieves what the first Adam failed to do. He dwells in a Garden (Israel will blossom, have much rainfall and huge harvests), and this Land will be a meeting point for a holy God and men - just like Eden of yore. Israel's job is, just like New Jerusalem, to be gates to sort the profane from those qualified to visit our Lord Jesus. This will be necessary because while Israel and the Church are resurrected "at His coming" (1st Cor.15:23), the Nations only experience this at the White Throne. The Nations will be in the flesh.

From Genesis 6 we know that the flesh is ONLY evil, CONTINUALLY, and both Romans 7 and Galatians 5:17 maintain that the flesh is dominant within the tripartite man. Being in the flesh, those of the nations who survive the Great Tribulation will procreate as normal. With health, harvests and long life (a man who dies at 100 years will be regarded as an infant), the earth population will grow exponentially. After a thousand years of peace, prosperity and blessing, the earth's population will be massive. This is no problem logistically for conditions are good, and food is abundant. But the FLESH is enmity with God. Even without Satan to stir them up, the nations who never knew conditions under Satan will be ripe for rebellion. Christ will rule with "a Rod of Iron" and all those born after Armageddon will be primed for rebellion.

So when Satan is let lose, in a flash he will convince the nations to rebel. The earth's government is centered in Jerusalem. For a thousand years there has been peace and the manufacture weapons have been forbidden by the Lord. Towns an cities have no need of protective Walls, and there will only be everyday farming implements for weapons. In this condition a huge hoard will go up against the Capital of the earth.

From God's side He does not leave anything UNTESTED. Our Lord Jesus was tested, we were tested at length, Israel was tested and now, the New Kingdom with Christ on the Throne must be tested. For 1,000 years our Lord and His co-kings will have been "subduing". Now, Christ's Kingdom must be tested. It is a nation at peace that is threatened - an unprepared one. But the failure of Satan and the Nations, and it is typical of men blinded by their own deceit, is that this is not a matter of Israel, or the Church. At stake is "THE KINGDOM OF GOD"! At Armageddon our Lord gets covered with blood. But this is GOD'S BATTLE. It is His Kingdom and His NAME. Fire comes from heaven - not earth. God's second last enemy is defeated. God's Kingdom is eternal - immovable. Only ONE enemy is left to be subdued - DEATH.

Hades has been filled by the slaughter of Harmon-Gog. The stink of death must be dealt with. Cain has been in Hades 6,500 years, but those of Harmon-Gog only 6 days. The burying takes 7 months. And then the Lord appears on the scene in a new "purging" glory - for old things must be erased. At His face and glory all the souls of men in an overfilled Hades are raised. they "STAND" before the Throne and hear their names called. they have books to remind them (God's memory is perfect). And at this assize, that of the Great White Throne, not a soul is left in Hades. The sea gives up the demons and "the rest of the dead" are judged.

The last enemy - death - is defeated and subdued by the general resurrection. Christ has reigned 'TILL all God's enemies have been subdued. Satan and Magog languish in the Lake of Fire.

1. Armageddon is at Christ's return - Magog is 1,000 years later
2. Armageddon is the test for the Beast's Kingdom - Magog is to test Christ's Kingdom
3. At Armageddon is the Beast and his armies against those of heaven led by Jesus.
4. At Harmon-Gog it is Gog's army versus God
5. At Christ's return, Jerusalem has a wall, for Jesus passes through the East Gate
6. At Magog's uprising the cities have no walls
7. At Armageddon the Beast is dethroned. At Harmon-Gog Jesus' throne and crown are confirmed
8. At Christ's return, the "Rest of the Dead live NOT ...". After Magog's attacked the dead "STAND"

They are two different wars.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

There is a very god reason for Magog's rebellion at the end of the Millennium.

Man's God-given duty in Genesis 1:26-28 was (i) be like God without being God, (ii) subdue (which implies a rebellion in progress), and (iii) rule the earth and its immediate environs. The Second Adam achieves what the first Adam failed to do. He dwells in a Garden (Israel will blossom, have much rainfall and huge harvests), and this Land will be a meeting point for a holy God and men - just like Eden of yore. Israel's job is, just like New Jerusalem, to be gates to sort the profane from those qualified to visit our Lord Jesus. This will be necessary because while Israel and the Church are resurrected "at His coming" (1st Cor.15:23), the Nations only experience this at the White Throne. The Nations will be in the flesh.

From Genesis 6 we know that the flesh is ONLY evil, CONTINUALLY, and both Romans 7 and Galatians 5:17 maintain that the flesh is dominant within the tripartite man. Being in the flesh, those of the nations who survive the Great Tribulation will procreate as normal. With health, harvests and long life (a man who dies at 100 years will be regarded as an infant), the earth population will grow exponentially. After a thousand years of peace, prosperity and blessing, the earth's population will be massive. This is no problem logistically for conditions are good, and food is abundant. But the FLESH is enmity with God. Even without Satan to stir them up, the nations who never knew conditions under Satan will be ripe for rebellion. Christ will rule with "a Rod of Iron" and all those born after Armageddon will be primed for rebellion.

So when Satan is let lose, in a flash he will convince the nations to rebel. The earth's government is centered in Jerusalem. For a thousand years there has been peace and the manufacture weapons have been forbidden by the Lord. Towns an cities have no need of protective Walls, and there will only be everyday farming implements for weapons. In this condition a huge hoard will go up against the Capital of the earth.

From God's side He does not leave anything UNTESTED. Our Lord Jesus was tested, we were tested at length, Israel was tested and now, the New Kingdom with Christ on the Throne must be tested. For 1,000 years our Lord and His co-kings will have been "subduing". Now, Christ's Kingdom must be tested. It is a nation at peace that is threatened - an unprepared one. But the failure of Satan and the Nations, and it is typical of men blinded by their own deceit, is that this is not a matter of Israel, or the Church. At stake is "THE KINGDOM OF GOD"! At Armageddon our Lord gets covered with blood. But this is GOD'S BATTLE. It is His Kingdom and His NAME. Fire comes from heaven - not earth. God's second last enemy is defeated. God's Kingdom is eternal - immovable. Only ONE enemy is left to be subdued - DEATH.

Hades has been filled by the slaughter of Harmon-Gog. The stink of death must be dealt with. Cain has been in Hades 6,500 years, but those of Harmon-Gog only 6 days. The burying takes 7 months. And then the Lord appears on the scene in a new "purging" glory - for old things must be erased. At His face and glory all the souls of men in an overfilled Hades are raised. they "STAND" before the Throne and hear their names called. they have books to remind them (God's memory is perfect). And at this assize, that of the Great White Throne, not a soul is left in Hades. The sea gives up the demons and "the rest of the dead" are judged.

The last enemy - death - is defeated and subdued by the general resurrection. Christ has reigned 'TILL all God's enemies have been subdued. Satan and Magog languish in the Lake of Fire.

1. Armageddon is at Christ's return - Magog is 1,000 years later
2. Armageddon is the test for the Beast's Kingdom - Magog is to test Christ's Kingdom
3. At Armageddon is the Beast and his armies against those of heaven led by Jesus.
4. At Harmon-Gog it is Gog's army versus God
5. At Christ's return, Jerusalem has a wall, for Jesus passes through the East Gate
6. At Magog's uprising the cities have no walls
7. At Armageddon the Beast is dethroned. At Harmon-Gog Jesus' throne and crown are confirmed
8. At Christ's return, the "Rest of the Dead live NOT ...". After Magog's attacked the dead "STAND"

They are two different wars.

As always, a well-thought-out and explained view. Overall, that is my view.

You neglected to express your thoughts on what manifests here and now, the present build-up, staging, and timing of round one of Gog-Magog.

Of course, none of us can predict the timing of these near-future prophetic events or sequences. But comparing scripture to geopolitical events, it has to be on the near horizon, I would think.

In particular, what are your thoughts on Israel burning those weapons of war for seven years for fuel? What central period, pre-Tribulation, sometime starting in the Tribulation, in the millennium, post millennium?