Don't Judge things Outside the Church

[Vine Abider]

As things in our world get more and more bizarre and out there, this passage in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is coming to me often in a stronger way:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

I have to say, when I remember and apply this passage, it takes a big load off me ---> not trying to worry/control/influence what is going on in the world!  How about you?

[Logostician]

I judge the actions of people with the discernment of the Spirit of God.  But Jesus is the judge of all mankind.  Nobody knows the deep things of the hearts of man like him.  He created all things, and died to save us.  He has more than earned the right to judge all things.  He became a man to know our state intimately.  He is ultimately qualified to judge us.  He was and is without sin.  He is the only man righteous to judge.  The only one.

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Logostician said:

I judge the actions of people with the discernment of the Spirit of God.  But Jesus is the judge of all mankind.  Nobody knows the deep things of the hearts of man like him.  He created all things, and died to save us.  He has more than earned the right to judge all things.  He became a man to know our state intimately.  He is ultimately qualified to judge us.  He was and is without sin.  He is the only man righteous to judge.  The only one.

Amen!  However, what I am conveying is this - when I'm getting all "wrapped around the axel" over crazy stuff I see in the news (or elsewhere), the idea that I'm not to judge and focus on this stuff brings me a measure of peace.

[Marathoner]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

As things in our world get more and more bizarre and out there, this passage in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is coming to me often in a stronger way:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

I have to say, when I remember and apply this passage, it takes a big load off me ---> not trying to worry/control/influence what is going on in the world!  How about you?

This is something I've never had to consciously apply; it's simply my default position. Moving around frequently, I've never paid any attention to politics nor political issues. This continues to be true even now, having lived in the same place for over a decade. This is the longest I've ever lived in one place. 

It's a matter of perspective and lifestyle, brother. I'm not oblivious to how things have been different for my brethren, and I understand how some perceive things as somehow worse than they were before. I know differently, @Vine Abider. What transpired in secret during times past, beyond the knowledge of most, is now made known to many today. The evil of men isn't greater than it was before. Consider the passage from Romans:

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written:

“There is no righteous person, not even one;
There is no one who understands,
There is no one who seeks out God;
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good,
There is not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The venom of asps is under their lips”;
“Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
Destruction and misery are in their paths,
And they have not known the way of peace.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
(Romans 3:9-18 NASB)

That was given to us close to 2,000 years ago. This seems lost upon those who wish to believe that the evil of today is somehow greater than it was during the time of Paul. What's the difference between then and now? There are more of us upon this earth, and modern technological gadgetry. That's all. The same evils are true today as they were long ago, proving the scripture true, 

What has been, it is what will be,
And what has been done, it is what will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which one might say,
“See this, it is new”?
It has already existed for ages
Which were before us.
There is no remembrance of the earlier things,
And of the later things as well, which will occur,
There will be no remembrance of them
Among those who will come later still.
(Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 NASB)

The evil of today is nothing new, my friend. 

[Vine Abider]

37 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

This is something I've never had to consciously apply; it's simply my default position. Moving around frequently, I've never paid any attention to politics nor political issues. This continues to be true even now, having lived in the same place for over a decade. This is the longest I've ever lived in one place. 

It's a matter of perspective and lifestyle, brother. I'm not oblivious to how things have been different for my brethren, and I understand how some perceive things as somehow worse than they were before. I know differently, @Vine Abider. What transpired in secret during times past, beyond the knowledge of most, is now made known to many today. The evil of men isn't greater than it was before. Consider the passage from Romans:

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written:

“There is no righteous person, not even one;
There is no one who understands,
There is no one who seeks out God;
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good,
There is not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The venom of asps is under their lips”;
“Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
Destruction and misery are in their paths,
And they have not known the way of peace.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
(Romans 3:9-18 NASB)

That was given to us close to 2,000 years ago. This seems lost upon those who wish to believe that the evil of today is somehow greater than it was during the time of Paul. What's the difference between then and now? There are more of us upon this earth, and modern technological gadgetry. That's all. The same evils are true today as they were long ago, proving the scripture true, 

What has been, it is what will be,
And what has been done, it is what will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which one might say,
“See this, it is new”?
It has already existed for ages
Which were before us.
There is no remembrance of the earlier things,
And of the later things as well, which will occur,
There will be no remembrance of them
Among those who will come later still.
(Ecclesiastes 1:9-11 NASB)

The evil of today is nothing new, my friend. 

I don't think that what we're seeing is anything new - perhaps it's just more blatant and in your face.  At least from the perception of myself, and I think others, over the past 50 years.  America is now in a post-Christian decline, where God has less and less room in people's minds and hearts.  Of course there has always been evil and at times it has been quite out there.  I do think that as we get closer to that glorious day, evil must be more manifested and come out in the open, as men's  conscience get darker and they have less and less shame (aka less & less of the Spirit of God) - the fruit of that rotten tree must become fully grown I believe. 

And it's great that you don't waste too much time being aware of all that is going on.  I have to limit myself to looking at things too much, as there truly is no profit in it!  In fact, to me, more than getting a quick awareness is eating of the wrong tree and will just produce death and anxiety in many of us.

So back to that wonderful verse from above in 1 Cor 5 - about not judging the things outside . . . it is a help to me!

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

When Jesus was speaking of tresspasses in the church order of things though

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Cr 5:1 and revisted in 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife and how it was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how they responded to it.

Because at first Paul writes

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation

1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

Paul rebukes them for not judging this

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Almost similarly as Jesus said

In letting him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (on the outside now)

Whereas in his next letter Paul was saying

2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

So this punishment was inflicted by many of them together (as the church) and they put him out from themselves shunning him according to both Paul's and Jesus instruction since they were not exercising wisdom in what they should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication). and Paul contniues

2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

Their correct response in obedience to Paul had a positive effect on the man

This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.

2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Its not really about judge not lest ye be judged there

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[TheBlade]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

As things in our world get more and more bizarre and out there, this passage in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is coming to me often in a stronger way:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

I have to say, when I remember and apply this passage, it takes a big load off me ---> not trying to worry/control/influence what is going on in the world!  How about you?

We can read yet it falls on deaf ears "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Oh this happens daily on Christian sites. Someone talking about some other believer with no clue they will now be judged exactly how they have judged. 

Paul  never claimed any authority to judge sinners or anyone outside the Christian community. What we forget is Paul not us had eh right to do this within the Christian community. Did he start any of them?  Some do this daily never knowing the person they are judging.   

[Vine Abider]

22 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

When Jesus was speaking of tresspasses in the church order of things though

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Cr 5:1 and revisted in 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife and how it was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how they responded to it.

Because at first Paul writes

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation

1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

Paul rebukes them for not judging this

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Almost similarly as Jesus said

In letting him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (on the outside now)

Whereas in his next letter Paul was saying

2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

So this punishment was inflicted by many of them together (as the church) and they put him out from themselves shunning him according to both Paul's and Jesus instruction since they were not exercising wisdom in what they should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication). and Paul contniues

2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

Their correct response in obedience to Paul had a positive effect on the man

This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.

2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Its not really about judge not lest ye be judged there

 

Yes, this was regarding judging and handling things in the church, right?

11 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

We can read yet it falls on deaf ears "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Oh this happens daily on Christian sites. Someone talking about some other believer with no clue they will now be judged exactly how they have judged. 

Paul  never claimed any authority to judge sinners or anyone outside the Christian community. What we forget is Paul not us had eh right to do this within the Christian community. Did he start any of them?  Some do this daily never knowing the person they are judging.   

It is easy for us, with the fallen flesh, to judge - at least it is for me.  I have to remember that God loves this unsaved one too and there are likely things I don't know regarding their situation and why they are behaving a certain way. 

But regardless, as Paul says, there are things damaging within the body that must not be tolerated

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

15 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, this was regarding judging and handling things in the church, right?

Yes, he said, do not ye judge them that are within?

That which is "called" a brother

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I don't think that what we're seeing is anything new - perhaps it's just more blatant and in your face.  At least from the perception of myself, and I think others, over the past 50 years.  America is now in a post-Christian decline, where God has less and less room in people's minds and hearts.  Of course there has always been evil and at times it has been quite out there.  I do think that as we get closer to that glorious day, evil must be more manifested and come out in the open, as men's  conscience get darker and they have less and less shame (aka less & less of the Spirit of God) - the fruit of that rotten tree must become fully grown I believe. 

And it's great that you don't waste too much time being aware of all that is going on.  I have to limit myself to looking at things too much, as there truly is no profit in it!  In fact, to me, more than getting a quick awareness is eating of the wrong tree and will just produce death and anxiety in many of us.

So back to that wonderful verse from above in 1 Cor 5 - about not judging the things outside . . . it is a help to me!

That's the rub: you wouldn't be seeing a thing if it wasn't for on-demand media. I've seen plenty myself --- more than my share perhaps --- during my lifetime. I've never understood the notion that what we're seeing now is unusual or new. It's not.

I believe this does indeed relate to the passage from 1 Corinthians 5. I've shared how judging in an insular manner is expressed in that passage from Ecclesiastes; they won't remember what happened in former times. 

Do you believe these are exceptional times, Vine Abider?