Sin Is Nasty Business

[Starise]

Being sinners by nature, I think we sometimes fail to see it for what it really is. We tend to quantify sin, as if stealing that pen at work is a lesser offense. In the grand scheme it's all the same thing, but God seems to be especially upset with sexual immorality of all kinds. I only say this because it's pointed out repeatedly above some of the others. 

God also hates liars and back biters. It's all nasty business no doubt. As saved believers God is weeding those things out of us and we desire to do what is right.

Have you ever seen a person who engaged in some of these activities later in life? The alchoholic has a bad liver or kills someone in a car accident, the sexually loose end up empty old people, maybe with a sexually transmitted disease, multiple divorces, a family with children from multiple fathers.A woman who thought the answer was an abortion. Utter devastation.

So why do some people continue to thrive on all of this? Look where it all leads. Jesus is the answer.

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, Starise said:

Being sinners by nature, I think we sometimes fail to see it for what it really is. We tend to quantify sin, as if stealing that pen at work is a lesser offense. In the grand scheme it's all the same thing, but God seems to be especially upset with sexual immorality of all kinds. I only say this because it's pointed out repeatedly above some of the others. 

God also hates liars and back biters. It's all nasty business no doubt. As saved believers God is weeding those things out of us and we desire to do what is right.

Have you ever seen a person who engaged in some of these activities later in life? The alchoholic has a bad liver or kills someone in a car accident, the sexually loose end up empty old people, maybe with a sexually transmitted disease, multiple divorces, a family with children from multiple fathers.A woman who thought the answer was an abortion. Utter devastation.

So why do some people continue to thrive on all of this? Look where it all leads. Jesus is the answer.

Sin in the flesh (not actually our "nature" now) gets energized.  People (believers & unbelievers) get drawn off into it by their own lust.  And, interestingly enough, Paul tells us the law of God actually energizes sin to become exceedingly sinful.  Why? Because that is the enemy's rebelliousness in our flesh!

And any of our flesh is fully capable of the litany of things scripture attributes to the fruits of the flesh.  But hallelujah, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed me from the law of sin and of death!"

[Starise]

13 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Sin in the flesh (not actually our "nature" now) gets energized.  People (believers & unbelievers) get drawn off into it by their own lust.  And, interestingly enough, Paul tells us the law of God actually energizes sin to become exceedingly sinful.  Why? Because that is the enemy's rebelliousness in our flesh!

And any of our flesh is fully capable of the litany of things scripture attributes to the fruits of the flesh.  But hallelujah, "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed me from the law of sin and of death!"

Thanks @Vine Abider

I didn't state this in the beginning. I was putting this out there for those who are not Christians. Those who swap sin for a life with Christ. They are left with nothing in the end. Worse off by far, so why the allure?

[Dennis1209]

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Because of sin, I think death was a blessing and mercy from God. We see from scripture that a single first sin rapidly compounded into many and various sins and abominations. We see the average longevity of those before the deluge approaching a millennium. Is it human nature for sin to increase over time, not to mention evil influences (sin abounds)?

Imagine the accumulation of sin, living for sin, and the increase in the wickedness of sin over 800-900 years. What about living in sin for all of eternity? What would that look like?

I suspect God shortened and blessed man’s exposure and consumption of sin linearly, not to exceed 120 years, then again modified in Psalm 90:10. Maybe as punishment or not to reach the levels as in the days of Noah.

I look at the wickedness, thoughts, and intent of some today who lived only 60-70 years. What would they have become living to 900 years old without seeking forgiveness?

Sin is sin, missing the mark, an offense to a Holy, holy, holy God. This is the only attribute of our Lord repeated three times, in two different places for emphasis (Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8).

As alluded to, in my opinion, I believe some sins and abominations provoke God’s wrath and anger more than others; we notice it in the written Word. Idol worship and other gods, homosexuality and sexual deviancy, lying to the Holy Spirit, and lawlessness, to name a few.

Another warning that is repeated twice in the book of Proverbs for emphasis:

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

There are various levels and rewards (crowns), elevations, assignments, positions, and responsibilities stored in heaven for the believer based on works. I also believe different levels of Hell and the Lake of Fire are reserved for those based on works. The Bottomless Pit is not on the same level as the Abyss, Gehenna, or Hades. The only direction standing in the Bottomless Pit, is up.

Our Lord is a fair and righteous God. Compared to Hitler, an antichrist, or Madalyn Murray O'Hair, enemies of Christ, would it make sense to eternally punish someone on the same level who tried to live a moral life and did good and charitable things in his life? 

Just some personal thoughts on the subject.

[Starise]

49 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Because of sin, I think death was a blessing and mercy from God. We see from scripture that a single first sin rapidly compounded into many and various sins and abominations. We see the average longevity of those before the deluge approaching a millennium. Is it human nature for sin to increase over time, not to mention evil influences (sin abounds)?

Imagine the accumulation of sin, living for sin, and the increase in the wickedness of sin over 800-900 years. What about living in sin for all of eternity? What would that look like?

I suspect God shortened and blessed man’s exposure and consumption of sin linearly, not to exceed 120 years, then again modified in Psalm 90:10. Maybe as punishment or not to reach the levels as in the days of Noah.

I look at the wickedness, thoughts, and intent of some today who lived only 60-70 years. What would they have become living to 900 years old without seeking forgiveness?

Sin is sin, missing the mark, an offense to a Holy, holy, holy God. This is the only attribute of our Lord repeated three times, in two different places for emphasis (Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8).

As alluded to, in my opinion, I believe some sins and abominations provoke God’s wrath and anger more than others; we notice it in the written Word. Idol worship and other gods, homosexuality and sexual deviancy, lying to the Holy Spirit, and lawlessness, to name a few.

Another warning that is repeated twice in the book of Proverbs for emphasis:

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

There are various levels and rewards (crowns), elevations, assignments, positions, and responsibilities stored in heaven for the believer based on works. I also believe different levels of Hell and the Lake of Fire are reserved for those based on works. The Bottomless Pit is not on the same level as the Abyss, Gehenna, or Hades. The only direction standing in the Bottomless Pit, is up.

Our Lord is a fair and righteous God. Compared to Hitler, an antichrist, or Madalyn Murray O'Hair, enemies of Christ, would it make sense to eternally punish someone on the same level who tried to live a moral life and did good and charitable things in his life? 

Just some personal thoughts on the subject.

I came full circle on the subject of hell. The unavoidable truths are there is a hell and it has levels. Most people believe if they are "good" persons they will end up in heaven. They may really end up in a higher part of hell, which is still hell. No Hiltons there.

I'm not quite sure what a high level of hell is compared to the lower levels, but I do know this: It isn't the kind of place where you can hang out with your buds and play basketball. It may be seen as punishment, but it's also alienation from all that is good. A terrible place by any measure. One facet of hell often overlooked is what I'll call the demonic factor. The place is loaded with them. They all have the ability to do bad things to anyone there, and if reports of those who claim they went there before God brought them back to life are true, demons are plenty active in inflicting constant pain and misery. 

Even if we weed out all of the scriptures that really mean a garbage dump in Israel, hell is an unavoidable fact.

Sin is enjoyable for a time for those lost...mind you not a very long time. No true believer 'enjoys' sin. Those who make the decison to perpetually partake in it with no remorse will pay a price, not only down here, but much worse later. It's a fool's game.

From observations it would seem you are correct @Dennis1209 that sin only gets worse both personally and corporately over time.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I am not saying that this passage is not in Romans but how the "Romans" defines death by sin. Does that mean that before anyone sins he is in not in Death, and what does it mean not to be in Death? 

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I came full circle on the subject of hell. The unavoidable truths are there is a hell and it has levels. Most people believe if they are "good" persons they will end up in heaven. They may really end up in a higher part of hell, which is still hell. No Hiltons there.

I'm not quite sure what a high level of hell is compared to the lower levels, but I do know this: It isn't the kind of place where you can hang out with your buds and play basketball. It may be seen as punishment, but it's also alienation from all that is good. A terrible place by any measure. One facet of hell often overlooked is what I'll call the demonic factor. The place is loaded with them. They all have the ability to do bad things to anyone there, and if reports of those who claim they went there before God brought them back to life are true, demons are plenty active in inflicting constant pain and misery. 

Even if we weed out all of the scriptures that really mean a garbage dump in Israel, hell is an unavoidable fact.

Sin is enjoyable for a time for those lost...mind you not a very long time. No true believer 'enjoys' sin. Those who make the decison to perpetually partake in it with no remorse will pay a price, not only down here, but much worse later. It's a fool's game.

From observations it would seem you are correct @Dennis1209 that sin only gets worse both personally and corporately over time.

 

Precisely!

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

We are not to wish for anyone to go to Hell. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard in person someone saying to another, “Go to Hell.” They have no forethought or concept of what is coming from their mouths.

Admittedly, I struggle to pray for people committing atrocities, beheading babies, children, and holocaust survivors as examples, but God still loves them. That is valuable if our intercessory prayers convert even one or a few of those people, keeping them out of Hell. God’s justice is meted out justly and perfectly.

By all accounts of the people closest to the infamous Jeffrey Dahmer, he accepted the Lord in prison before his murder.

Yep, too many people picture Hell as drinking and playing poker with their buddies for all eternity; many do not even believe Hell exists.

What eternal horror, the absence of Light, no blessings (good things) ever, only bad things, the worm burns forever, having all your senses and facilities, pain, suffering, and torment 24/7, continual darkness with no HOPE forever. Constant wailing and gnashing of teeth, I can take that also to imply they are still angry toward God and cursing.

According to my interpretation of scripture below, Satan and his minions will be nobodies for eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

The most precious gift given to us is our eternal souls made in the image of God. As the Bible states, our lives are but a vapor that quickly disappears. We can escape our just rewards by Grace, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Dennis1209]

10 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not saying that this passage is not in Romans but how the "Romans" defines death by sin. Does that mean that before anyone sins he is in not in Death, and what does it mean not to be in Death? 

Can you redefine your question? I do not quite understand what you are asking.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Can you redefine your question? I do not quite understand what you are asking.

@Dennis1209

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If I understood correctly this passage is referring to people as they go on living. And the time will come that when they sin death will come to them because they sin. Does that statement also includes that before they sin they were not in Death? because death will come to them after they sin. Were they alive before they sin? 

* Please can you elaborate about the meaning of death in this context? What is this all about? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:37 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Precisely!

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

We are not to wish for anyone to go to Hell. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard in person someone saying to another, “Go to Hell.” They have no forethought or concept of what is coming from their mouths.

Admittedly, I struggle to pray for people committing atrocities, beheading babies, children, and holocaust survivors as examples, but God still loves them. That is valuable if our intercessory prayers convert even one or a few of those people, keeping them out of Hell. God’s justice is meted out justly and perfectly.

By all accounts of the people closest to the infamous Jeffrey Dahmer, he accepted the Lord in prison before his murder.

Yep, too many people picture Hell as drinking and playing poker with their buddies for all eternity; many do not even believe Hell exists.

What eternal horror, the absence of Light, no blessings (good things) ever, only bad things, the worm burns forever, having all your senses and facilities, pain, suffering, and torment 24/7, continual darkness with no HOPE forever. Constant wailing and gnashing of teeth, I can take that also to imply they are still angry toward God and cursing.

According to my interpretation of scripture below, Satan and his minions will be nobodies for eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

The most precious gift given to us is our eternal souls made in the image of God. As the Bible states, our lives are but a vapor that quickly disappears. We can escape our just rewards by Grace, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I have never wished anyone to go to hell. Very much the opposite. I will go to great lengths to show anyone who wants to know the reality of the situation.

Probably the hardest people to convince are those who don't think that anything they have done is bad enough to warrant hell. In reality sin is a condition we all have. It's easy to say that we are basically 'good' people, yet the best of us is a sinner.