Are Zechariah 12 events unfolding before our eyes?

[Stewardofthemystery]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

False.The time of the tribulation Jesus is speaking of the the tribulation of the saints in Israel.It takes place the last three and a half years before Christ comes.

Romans 2:9

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Romans 2:9

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

 

These saints are persecuted first.

 

 

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
 

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

 

Then the Jews who persecuted these saints are cast into great tribulation along with the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
 

 

 

The only people who are saved are the people who's names are written.That is them who believed the gospel and were baptized.

The Jews who's names are not written are not saved.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[farouk]

I think we also need to distinguish between the church and Israel, in Scripture and in life.

[Stewardofthemystery]

56 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

These saints are persecuted first.

 

 

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
 

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

 

Then the Jews who persecuted these saints are cast into great tribulation along with the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.
 

 

 

The only people who are saved are the people who's names are written.That is them who believed the gospel and were baptized.

The Jews who's names are not written are not saved.

You do know there are Jewish saints right?😊

[Shilohsfoal]

32 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

You do know there are Jewish saints right?😊

Those are the ones I'm taking about.  The ones that live in in Israel today.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Stewardofthemystery]

Just now, Shilohsfoal said:

Those are the ones talking about.  The ones that live in in Israel today.

The problem you and many others have is discerning what is already past, what is present, and what is yet future in prophecy.

Israel (the Jews) were scattered to the nations for all their abominations and for rejecting Jesus as the prophesied Messiah that was foretold to come.

God said He would “turn His hand”upon their offspring, or their “little ones”…

Zechariah 13:7

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and “I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”

 

The days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews began with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount in 70 ad; and continues “until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.”

Then Gods wrath will be poured out on all the Nations.

[Shilohsfoal]

13 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The problem you and many others have is discerning what is already past, what is present, and what is yet future in prophecy.

Israel (the Jews) were scattered to the nations for all their abominations and for rejecting Jesus as the prophesied Messiah that was foretold to come.

God said He would “turn His hand”upon their offspring, or their “little ones”…

Zechariah 13:7

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and “I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”

 

The days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews began with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount in 70 ad; and continues “until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.”

Then Gods wrath will be poured out on all the Nations.

Your problem is you don't know what is future.The wrath of God that is to be poured out upon the Jews who reject Christ and persecuted his servants, is still to come .

 

 

Luke 21

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

²³ But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Stewardofthemystery]

44 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Your problem is you don't know what is future.The wrath of God that is to be poured out upon the Jews who reject Christ and persecuted his servants, is still to come .

 

 

Luke 21

²² For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

²³ But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory

 

 

 

And that is one of the reasons we will not agree.  Because a part of that prophecy is already past, part is still present, and a part of it is yet future.

If you believe it is all yet future, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Peace 

[Shilohsfoal]

25 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

And that is one of the reasons we will not agree.  Because a part of that prophecy is already past, part is still present, and a part of it is yet future.

If you believe it is all yet future, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Peace 

All of the verses I posted are future.Jesus spoke of the persecution of the saints in Israel at the time of the end in several places and they are mentioned throughout the bible in various places.

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

But the good thing about the Israels who are killed for their testimony of Christ is they will reign with Christ over the nations.Yes there is much written about those Israelis 

 

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Exodus 19:6

you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

That's funny.Revelations shows Israelites first.Then the nations.

Israelites-Rev 7:4

Nations-Rev 7:9

Because John's view continues to shift back and forth from heavenly to earthly perspectives. Seven times, I've read. Rev. 6 ends with an earthly perspective, which continues through 7:8; then shifts back to the heavenly perspective of 7:9ff. John was not able to see both realms at the same time.