Analogies -Folly?

[Starise]

16 hours ago, Willa said:

One reason that I love the writings of Corry Ten Boom is that she spoke often using analogies and similes.  She spoke as Jesus spoke.  It wasn't the intellectual that feeds my spirit but the simple way she expressed truths.  She once compared God to a piece os chocolate.  It can be analyzed chemically. You can know the recipe for making it.  But until you have tasted it..........Taste and see that the Lord is good!

 Psa 34:8

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

I use analogys all the time. Never gave it a second thought.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

4 hours ago, itty-bitty lamb said:

Figure of speech there, in my post.

But yes, i'm not a Jew, and ive never felt a conviction from the Lord when i mix meat and milk.

Who is Bill?

My dog loves Mr Bill (comes in plush also) she loves his "Oh noooo" box, if you have a dog give it a try.

 

[BibleStudent100]

On 11/29/2023 at 1:09 PM, other one said:

I don't think I could agree with using no analogies.  I think it would depend on who you are talking to.  The Bible is full of concepts, and if you don't understand the customs and language of the time the Bible was penned and translated, sometimes you would have to have a long history lesson just to understand the concept of what is being said or done to get the person to understand.

Hi Other One,

You are correct when you state that we need to use analogies and illustrations in our conversations to help others to comprehend the concepts of the Bible.  In fact, the Bible states that Jesus would "speak to the crowds by illustrations.  Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them" (Matthew 13:34).

Note this pertinent quotation from a Bible Encyclopedia:  "The Greek expression pa·ra·bo·leʹ (literally, a placing beside or together) has a wider latitude of meaning than the English “proverb” or “parable.” However, “illustration” covers a wide range that can include “parable” and, in many cases, “proverb.” A “proverb” embodies a truth in expressive language, often metaphorically, and a “parable” is a comparison or similitude, a short, usually fictitious, narrative from which a moral or spiritual truth is drawn."

In attending church last month, I heard a wonderful way to drive home the point about selfishness, which involves :  "If we take and take and don't give back to others, we become like the Dead Sea, which takes in fresh water, but disgorges nothing and becomes "dead." Better to be like the Sea of Galilee, which takes in fresh water and then lets it out and as such is a healthy, sound sea."  

 

[Neighbor]

..."God is capable of accurately relaying His Word to us in a way that we can understand. It is crucial that we interpret properly to determine the intended meaning rather than forcing ideas into the text.".... excerpt from an article by Tim Chaffey that may be found at  https://answersingenesis.org/hermeneutics/how-we-interpret-the-bible-principles-for-understanding/ 

 I find that the Bible itself tells me God makes it understandable to those He wills to understand, and that God hides it's truths from those he does not want to understand it. No amount  of metaphor analogy parable invented by a man's mind will change that.

God enables understanding His word the Bible. Let God enable. It is not the duty of any teacher to embellish the word with homilies  metaphors analogies etc.  All that may be needed are already there within the word ready  to either remain hidden from  or to be reveal to, as God desires and when God desires.

Mankind's little concocted tales cannot improve on that. The word need not be dumbed down. What is needed is the Holy Spirit. 1 Corintians 2 touches heavily on this subject: 

"And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.  For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.  I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,  that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Spiritual Wisdom

 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory,  which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.  For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.  For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?”But we have the mind of Christ."

 

 

[Neighbor]

BTW- I do appreciate the many posts enlightening me to the use by so many of analogy or perhaps more so metaphor. I do find them most interesting, a challenge, and useful to me exchanges. So thanks for sharing!!!

So far I find I am, surprisingly to me, becoming more entrenched in the idea that  casual use of analogy, metaphor, and the like, can be rather harmful more than enlightening  of the richness of God's word and it's application by way of the Holy Spirit's reveals of the word, and how it is to be put into actional faithing. It is making me more alert to the need for me personally to dig into the word itself doing so prayerfully  and with thinking upon it, even memorization (Augh work). All so that when push comes to shove in life's spiritual warfare I am armored up  and have the word of God at my mind's eye and in my heart.

 

[steve morrow]

AND  THE  LUMP  GETS  BIGGER  AND  BIGGER

 

2 PETER 1:3  according as  HIS  divine power ---hath given unto us --- ALL  THINGS  THAT  PERTAIN  UNTO  LIFE  AND  GODLINESS--- through the knowledge of  HIM  that  hath  called us to glory and virtue

PSALM 60:11  give us help from trouble  --- for vain is the help of man ---

ISAIAH 2:22  cease you from man whose breath is in his nostrils --- for wherein is he to be accounted of ---

2 CORINTHIANS 11:20  for you suffer if a man bring you into bondage if a man devour you if a man take of you ---IF  A  MAN  EXALT  HIMSELF --- if a man smite you on the face ---

 

LUKE 14:11  for whosoever exalteth --HIMSELF-- shall be abased --- and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted --

 

JOB 36:22  behold  GOD  exalteth by  HIS  power --- WHO  TEACHETH  LIKE  HIM ---

 

PROVERBS 18:21  death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof 

 

               ********************************                   

JOHN 6:48   I  AM  THAT  BREAD  OF  LIFE 

LUKE 8:12  those by the wayside are they that hear then cometh the devil and taketh away the word out of their hearts --- lest they should believe and be saved ---

--8:13--  they on the rock are they which when they hear receive the word with joy and these have no root  ---  which for a while believe and in time of temptation fall away

          *****************************

 

1 JOHN 2:27  but the anointing which you have received of  HIM  abideth in you --- AND  YOU  NEED  NOT  THAT  ANY  MAN  TEACH  YOU --- but as the same anointing teacheth you of  --- ALL  THINGS  AND  IS  TRUTH  AND  IS  NO  LIE  ---  you shall abide in  --HIM--

 

GALATIANS 5:7  you did run well --- who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth ---

--5:8-- this persuasion cometh not of  HIM  that calleth you 

 

--5:9-- A  LITTLE  LEAVEN  LEAVENETH  THE  WHOLE  LUMP

 

--5:10-- I have confidence in you through  THE  LORD  that you will be none otherwise minded but he that troubleth you --- shall bear his judgment --- WHOSOEVER  HE  BE ---

 

REVELATION 21:22  and I saw no temple therein for  THE  LORD  GOD  ALMIGHTY  AND  THE  LAMB  ARE  THE  TEMPLE  OF  IT 

REVELATION 21:27  and there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth neither whatsoever worketh abomination ---OR  MAKETH  A  LIE--- but they which are written in the lambs book of life

REVELATION 22:19  and if any man shall take away from the words of this prophecy  GOD  shall take away --- his part out of the book of life --- and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book

 

WHO  IS  THE  LIAR  ???   HONESTLY 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Neighbor]

6 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

In attending church last month, I heard a wonderful way to drive home the point about selfishness, which involves :  "If we take and take and don't give back to others, we become like the Dead Sea, which takes in fresh water, but disgorges nothing and becomes "dead." Better to be like the Sea of Galilee, which takes in fresh water and then lets it out and as such is a healthy, sound sea."  

 

Hi,I am curious and wil appreciate enlightenment as to the result(s.) In the month that has passed what is it's result; has there been sign of a call to action  by the Holy Spirit as result of that "point" with any response by those that heard the "message? 

 

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I find that the Bible itself tells me God makes it understandable to those He wills to understand, and that God hides it's truths from those he does not want to understand it. No amount  of metaphor analogy parable invented by a man's mind will change that.

Most Bible Colleges teach on the use of illustrations and object lessons.

We have Jeremiah's example of effective communication to follow:

Jer 18:1-6  The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying:  (2)  "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words."  (3)  Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel.  (4)  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.  (5)  Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying:  (6)  "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the LORD. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel!

We have Nathan's example of effective communication to follow:

2Sa 12:1-4  Then the LORD sent Nathan to David. And he came to him, and said to him: "There were two men in one city, one rich and the other poor.  (2)  The rich man had exceedingly many flocks and herds.  (3)  But the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb which he had bought and nourished; and it grew up together with him and with his children. It ate of his own food and drank from his own cup and lay in his bosom; and it was like a daughter to him.  (4)  And a traveler came to the rich man, who refused to take from his own flock and from his own herd to prepare one for the wayfaring man who had come to him; but he took the poor man's lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him."

We have Daniel's example of effective communication to follow:

Dan 4:19-27  Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonished for a time, and his thoughts troubled him. So the king spoke, and said, "Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its interpretation trouble you." Belteshazzar answered and said, "My lord, may the dream concern those who hate you, and its interpretation concern your enemies!  (20)  "The tree that you saw, which grew and became strong, whose height reached to the heavens and which could be seen by all the earth,  (21)  whose leaves were lovely and its fruit abundant, in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and in whose branches the birds of the heaven had their home—  (22)  it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong; for your greatness has grown and reaches to the heavens, and your dominion to the end of the earth.  (23)  "And inasmuch as the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, 'Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave its stump and roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze in the tender grass of the field; let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let him graze with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him';  (24)  this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king:  (25)  They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.  (26)  "And inasmuch as they gave the command to leave the stump and roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be assured to you, after you come to know that Heaven rules.  (27)  Therefore, O king, let my advice be acceptable to you; break off your sins by being righteous, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor. Perhaps there may be a lengthening of your prosperity."
 

We have our Lord's example of effective communication:

Mat 13:18-23  "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:  (19)  When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.  (20)  But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;  (21)  yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.  (22)  Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.  (23)  But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

[Neighbor]

17 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Most Bible Colleges teach on the use of illustrations and object lessons.

Hi, and unfortunately many if not most all Bible colleges also now teach replacement theology. The state of education being what it is, I do not find their use of nonbiblical illustration to be  of value. Instead what is being shared as teaching is a distraction from the real rich history that could instead be consumed and then recalled for application when the Holy Spirit calls for action.

 I think for example; I am better off to have listened to an hour long  exposition of Haggai than to hear  life compared to a box of chocolates. I am then led by the call of the Spirit to read Haggai with purpose to dig into the background the real known history that confirms it's content, and to use as I think and pray  while I  read and also ponder,  asking God what will you have of me now that I am enriched further by your word? I so very am blessed by it, may I somehow be a blessing to you in turn? May I be a better used blessing to you LORD for it's  reveal to me for use when the Holy Spirit leads?

Why? Because Haggai is God breathed real history and truth that reveals accurately and specifically God's will. God provides God's truth to confirm His will for me, as well as to further confirm His sovereignty in which I strive to live under and by. It is a humble effort I am afraid but it is effort put forth.

 Holding onto the happy little thoughts contrived from the mind of any man trying to be cutesy  or profound,  even from a pastor or priest, missionary, or writer, may make me content for a hour day  or week, but it also leaves me shallow in understanding what God is doing, and even why God is doing, in and to my life, my own life.

Whereas the word of God  for example that shared at Haggai can be laid deep into the memory bank of my mind waiting for use  by the Holy Spirit when I most need to know it, be assured by  it and ensured of the will of God to be followed in my own life.

It is work for my mind hard work especially through these now hindered eyes f mine to read the word of God for any lengthy period of time, but the richness of it, wow that is worth the sweat the mind is put through to take it in and then wait on God.

If I have a regret and I do, it is that I also gravitated to the contrivances of joke a minute pastors with their analogies  and metaphors that  served no long enduring good for me to utilize. None changed my course ,non called me to action through use by the Holy Spirit-

And therein is the great difference between the Word the Bible even it's illustrations metaphors and similes, and the quick quips of speakers. One may tickle the ears for a moment, the other the word changes oneself from the inside with an enduring faith of Yeshua to be used of God by God when God wills, because it is from God.

 

[Neighbor]

p.s. All that above said; it is now time for me to read Haggai, with some studied determination trying to take it's layering of truth  of command and of precepts for my use, putting in a little mind sweat and asking of God for application in my life. All in appreciation of his effort put forth in sharing His word with a subject of as low stature as me.

Pretty cool what God has for me and for us!