Paul River Posted December 4, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2023 Those who hold the pre-tribulation rapture position, usually site 1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" But this verse cannot possibly refer to Christians suffering here on earth, because Christians have been persecuted since the first days of the church. We find the timing of the Rapture in Revelation 14:14-16 where the Angel harvests the earth - right in the middle of the tribulation, and just before the time of Jacob's Trouble. This timing is affirmed by two passages where we see saints pulled out of the Tribulation in Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 20:4. We are giving the church faults hope by suggesting we will not have to endure the Tribulation. We need to prepare for these troubled times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted December 4, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2023 38 minutes ago, Paul River said: We are giving the church faults hope by suggesting we will not have to endure the Tribulation. Yes, the pre-trib rapture is a false hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted December 4, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2023 Yes Post-Trib is false hope. We are not appointed to the wrath of the lake of fire. Been going on for 2000 years now. Christians will miss the Wrath of the 70th Week. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul River Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 hours ago, Montana Marv said: Yes Post-Trib is false hope. We are not appointed to the wrath of the lake of fire. Been going on for 2000 years now. Christians will miss the Wrath of the 70th Week. In Christ Montana Marv I'm arguing for the mid-trib position - which would hold that the second half of the tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble and not the whole 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2023 The rapture/resurrection event - "anytime" between right now and the day the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation. It may happen pre-trib (pre-70th week, pre-trib is a misnomer), or it may not. But must happen before the transgression of desolation act - which triggers the beginning of the Day of Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul River said: I'm arguing for the mid-trib position - which would hold that the second half of the tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble and not the whole 7 years. Too restrictive. The great tribulation btw begins 1335 days before Jesus returns. Here is a time line chart I made. Just follow the red-line from upper left corner to lower right corner. Edited December 5, 2023 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted December 5, 2023 There will be no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone at any time. We are told to endure until the end, until Jesus Returns. The Biblical teaching for us to 'escape' the wrath of God, is to stand firm in our faith and trust the Lord to protect us, Isaiah 43:2, 1 Corinthians 10:13 The only people who could be thought of as being 'raptured', will be the two Witnesses; Revelation 11:12, and they do not go to live in heaven, but are resurrected along with the rest of the martyrs killed by the 'beast' during the 1260 day period of world satanic control. They will be His priests and co rulers on earth. Revelation 20:6b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul River Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, douggg said: Too restrictive. The great tribulation btw begins 1335 days before Jesus returns. Here is a time line chart I made. Just follow the red-line from upper left corner to lower right corner. Lot of work went into this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul River Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Keras said: The only people who could be thought of as being 'raptured', will be the two Witnesses; Revelation 11:12, and they do not go to live in heaven, but are resurrected along with the rest of the martyrs killed by the 'beast' during the 1260 day period of world satanic control. They will be His priests and co rulers on earth. Revelation 20:6b For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4:16-17 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2023 37 minutes ago, Keras said: There will be no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone at any time. Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. So who are the brethren in heaven ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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