Should Christmas be celebrated or rejected according to the word of God?

[Bro.Tan]

Many of our present Christmas traditions and symbols have historical roots in ancient paganistic rites related to Celtic, Druid, Roman or Nordic. Druid ceremonies were based on an eight-fold year. Four were solar and the other four were lunar. The Yule celebration is Dec. 22 or Winter Solstice. Yule is one of the eight festival days of the pagans. The Roman and Nordic invaders of Ireland had an influence on the prominence and significance of Yule. Yule, in both old Roman paganism and in Norse tradition, was the start of the New Year. Yule comes from a Nordic word meaning "wheel." The Christmas wreath is a symbol of the wheel of the year. Yule altars throughout paganism show the influence of Ireland and the Druids with their holly, pine and mistletoe coverings. Yule rituals enact birthing rites, ask for the sun god's return, and beseech that the wheel of the year be turned again. 

The very word "Druid" means wise man of the oak, or "One who has knowledge of the oak." The custom of lighting a Yule log is an ancient Druid practice. A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling. Holes are drilled into the log and candies inserted. The entire log is then decoratively covered with holly and evergreens to represent the intertwining of god and goddess, or male and female elements. Hopes for fertile crops, herds, and families are invested in the Yule log image.

Consider the habit of putting up lights. The profusion of lights on house and tree at Christmas time is a carry-over of the candles and fires lit in sympathetic magic to lure back the waning sun. Today it's still an Irish custom to leave lights burning all through the house on midwinter night to honor the sun's return. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.

[uncle_mike]

Who is to say the first Christians were not holding a form of Hanukkah that eventually transformed into Christmas celebrating the birth of Christ?

 

There's no real records on file the first Christians to hold Christmas did it based off of paganism.   Hanukkah took place 160+ years before the Birth of Christ.  No reason to think Christian Christmas is not a different version of Hanukkah.

 

 

 

 

Origin and history

Hanukkah commemorates the Maccabean (Hasmonean) victories over the forces of the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes (reigned 175–164 bce) and the rededication of the Temple on Kislev 25, 164 bce.

Edited December 14, 2023 by uncle_mike

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws.

I do not see that in

Eph 2

Colos 2

Phillip 3

Acts 13

11 Corin 3

and other places

[Vine Abider]

20 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). 

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

I don't think your response addressed what I stated at all . . . rather it goes off into the notion that once born-again, if we err, it's off to damnation we go.  Fine, as in various exchanges with you I know that's what you think (though - as per what you stated in an earlier post about not agreeing with those who are in error - I don't agree with that incorrect stance).

Regardless, I don't know how that aligns with the topic of this thread:  Celebrating Christmas . . . are you saying if someone celebrates Christmas they will go into damnation? (If so, this is pretty far out legalism in my mind)

[Marathoner]

44 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Regardless, I don't know how that aligns with the topic of this thread:  Celebrating Christmas . . . are you saying if someone celebrates Christmas they will go into damnation? (If so, this is pretty far out legalism in my mind)

That was the assertion of the OP from the beginning, brother. 

[Bro.Tan]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I don't think your response addressed what I stated at all . . . rather it goes off into the notion that once born-again, if we err, it's off to damnation we go.  Fine, as in various exchanges with you I know that's what you think (though - as per what you stated in an earlier post about not agreeing with those who are in error - I don't agree with that incorrect stance).

Regardless, I don't know how that aligns with the topic of this thread:  Celebrating Christmas . . . are you saying if someone celebrates Christmas they will go into damnation? (If so, this is pretty far out legalism in my mind)

Paul says in (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

All of the word of God fits together, but you mention not having to keep the law, so I brought to your attention the law that we do no have to keep, which is the animal sacrificial law. The Commandments, statues and Judgements are still on the table. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

I rather be legal then illegal, because salvation is in your hands.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Bro.Tan

[Bro.Tan]

20 hours ago, NConly said:

I do not see that in

Eph 2

Colos 2

Phillip 3

Acts 13

11 Corin 3

and other places

Let's go into Hebrews, because Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). 

[NConly]

which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

I disagree;; which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of the commandments that Jesus spoke himself . would be more accurate not Gods commandments written on stone. Eph 2 15 is clear.

[Yes, and]

@ Bro.Tan: having followed along and read through your comments, I feel very much like Paul must have felt when he confronted Cephas, as Paul describes in Gal 2:11 and following. Indeed, were you to come to my own town I feel I would have to "oppose you to your face." Your words, I fear, do nothing but draw attention away from the finished work of our Lord. The net result seems strikingly similar to what Paul describes a few verses earlier (Gal 2:4): it comes off as an attempt to bring the faithful into bondage. But I, like Paul, and many here who have patiently tried to respond to you, "will not yield in subjection to you for even an hour" (v. 5 paraphrased). Paul goes to great length in almost the entire letter to the Galatians to refute the Judaizers, "so that the truth of the gospel might remain with [the Galatians.]"

I have no doubt whatsoever that you read that epistle and likely the entirety of the NT in a completely different way (as evidenced by your take on Hebrews—a complete misunderstanding of the thrust of that letter), such that my words will have no effect. Still, I felt compelled to try. Take just Hebrews 3:18-19, for example. You argue that not following all the commandments (now giving an exception to the sacrificial laws!) is the basis for eternal damnation, but here the writer makes a direct connection between unbelief and disobedience. That is, those who fell, and those who fall, are those who simply will not believe in God, in the work that He accomplishes, and the work that he has fully and completely accomplished in his son. No, instead your words serve only to draw the focus off  of Jesus and his sacrifice on our behalf, back into the Law—and you can not see this! You tell us we face mortal danger because we put a tree in our homes (that tree is meaningless and those who put their faith in Christ's finished work know this). Rather, I tell you that you are in mortal peril because your word is ultimately not the good news about Jesus. Instead it is everything but, potentially leading one away from the Lord and resting in His work.

So here's an interesting off-topic question which I have thought about recently, and thought about as the basis for a new thread: do "wolves in sheep's clothing" know they are wolves? I mean by this: if a wolf is wearing sheep's clothing and he looks in a mirror, what does he see? Does he see a wolf or does he see a sheep? Because this wolf lives by deception does that deception extend to himself? What does he ultimately believe about himself?

[Sower]

On 12/13/2023 at 5:44 PM, Bro.Tan said:

I don't study Jewish history much either, but in the Bible we run across Esau. For example the book of obadiah, give that read and go back to that time when Esau and Jacob his brother was born in Genesis. Give those books in the Bible a good read and get back to me, please. 

I would consider your request more willingly, Bro Tan, should you answer my and other posters how you personally keep the sabbath that you say that all new testament believers are required to do according to your understanding of scripture. Evading the question causes us to wonder and I would rather actually hear what you have to say.

How do you personally celebrate the sabbath, from sundown to sundown?  Do you fulfill the requirements as did OT believers? A very simple and appropriate question.

Thanks, Bro Tan...         (Third and last request)...