Daniel chapter 2 (no not Revelation) by verse

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The subject matter is the little horn and the ten horns of Daniel 7.   When they will make their appearance.

End of time implies no longer the counting of time - which will not happen until Revelation 21.

Time of the end, end times, are expressions for the latter days, latter years.

Daniel 8:17 refers to the vision regarding the transgression of desolation by the little horn.    That vision will last 2300 days, Daniel 8:14.

13Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

kjv

We are talking specifically of who and when is the little horn person.   The little horn is not the pope/papacy.

The little horn will be a Jew, whose religion is Judaism.   Who will betray his own people and transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant, by committing the transgression of desolation.    And eventually becoming the beast king of Revelation 13, who will persecute the saints for a time/times/half time, who will meet his end when Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.     And the 7 years in Ezekiel 39, following the Gog/Magog event.

Okay. 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The Vatican will be destroyed, burned to the ground, during the reign of the ten kings at the time of the beast-king.

16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Their kingdom is the EU, the Roman Empire feet of iron and mirey clay, of the latter days, latter years, at the time of Jesus's second coming.

The beast-king will be dictator over the EU.

Okay. 

[JoeCanada]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, the 4th kingdom is the most important kingdom because this is when the Messiah will arrive.

 

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The 4th kingdom begins as pagan Rome.

How do you get this from Daniel 2?

You have set the parameters for Daniel 2 only.... or are we now allowed to go outside of Daniel 2?

I'm not trying to be difficult but I do not see any of this coming from Daniel 2.... or am I missing something?

[Marilyn C]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:26 PM, Charlie744 said:

Chapter 2 of the book of Daniel is one of the most important chapters in Daniel. It provides the structure of the 4 kingdoms that will come upon the earth and where God will place His prophetic messages.

 

In these 3 verses, Daniel is telling us the following:

1) first kingdom - head of gold,

2) second kingdom - chest and arms of silver,

3) third kingdom -  belly and thighs of bronze,

4) fourth kingdom - legs of iron and feet of partly iron and partly clay

 

Although there is NO name given to these four kingdoms, I find they are Babylon, Medes-Persia, Greece and Rome. (4 and only 4 kingdoms).

 

There are FIVE kingdoms - the last one is the `DIVIDED KINGDOM.` 

[Charlie744]

26 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

 

How do you get this from Daniel 2?

You have set the parameters for Daniel 2 only.... or are we now allowed to go outside of Daniel 2?

I'm not trying to be difficult but I do not see any of this coming from Daniel 2.... or am I missing something?

Wait a minute, that is not fair. I already mentioned that there was no mention of the identity in these 3 verses at this time of the chapter. 
 

But I did mention the 4 kingdoms I believe they referred to. 
 
I believe I discussed this same issue with you a few days ago and I asked you who this 4th kingdom is and I didn’t believe you ever provided your opinion on that. 
 

I clearly mentioned in the opening post that we might try and take a verse or a group of verses at a time to get others interpretations on them before we move to the next verse or verses. 
 

So, I offered my opinion on the 4 kingdoms given the types of metals assigned to each kingdom, also knowing that the 4 kingdoms did in fact follow or succeed the one behind it. 
 

So, maybe there is not enough information to be able to identify these 5 kingdoms at this time- that is certainly valid. 
 

Is there anything within these 3 verses that you can draw out from them if not the 4 kingdoms? 

[Charlie744]

32 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

There are FIVE kingdoms - the last one is the `DIVIDED KINGDOM.` 

I agree with you that the 4th kingdom was “divided”, but there still is only 4 kingdoms (2:40). There is no mention of a 5th kingdom. 
 

And without jumping ahead, the 4 and only 4 kingdoms are also confirmed in 7:3. God would send out 4 beast kingdoms up from or out of the sea. Essentially, He is telling us these are the only 4 kingdoms “of His own making.” 
 

But when the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome was “divided,” it was succeeded by the little horn and the 4th beast would become known as papal Rome. But the point here is that this kingdom of papal Rome AS WELL AS THIS LITTLE HORN (papacy) DID NOT COME OUT OF THE SEA, and therefore, did not come “from His own making.” 
God’s church, after the Cross, would be between Him and each individual. Now, we go through His Holy Spirit. Take a look at 2:44 - God will never again turn His church over to another people. Man, not even the Jews can be trusted to teach the One true God to their fellow man. That responsibility is now given to His Holy Spirit who will never fail. 
 Unfortunately, the papacy / papal Rome decided to ignore this verse as felt they were to “replace” the obligation of the Jews to preach the One God. This was not what God wanted after the Cross. Only the Holy Spirit would be our mediator, but the RCC jumped right in to fill that vacuum. This is why there is only 4 kingdoms - the papacy/ papal Rome disobeyed these commands and inserted themselves between God and man - they were never to be an authorized kingdom of God. 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I agree with you that the 4th kingdom was “divided”, but there still is only 4 kingdoms (2:40). There is no mention of a 5th kingdom. 
 

 

 

The 4th kingdom was represented by the `legs of iron.`

The `last` kingdom was the divided kingdom represented by the `feet and toes.` 

`Whereas you saw the `feet and toes,` partly of potter`s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom is divided;...` (Dan. 2: 41)

Very distinct differences there. 

[Charlie744]

12 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The 4th kingdom was represented by the `legs of iron.`

The `last` kingdom was the divided kingdom represented by the `feet and toes.` 

`Whereas you saw the `feet and toes,` partly of potter`s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom is divided;...` (Dan. 2: 41)

Very distinct differences there. 

I agree, the feet were part of the 4th kingdom and then was divided. The original 4th kingdom of pagan Rome was replaced by papal Rome, but papal Rome did not come out of the “sea”. They came out of pagan Rome, meaning they were not supposed to set themselves up as a kingdom. 
 

 

[Charlie744]

16 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The 4th kingdom was represented by the `legs of iron.`

The `last` kingdom was the divided kingdom represented by the `feet and toes.` 

`Whereas you saw the `feet and toes,` partly of potter`s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom is divided;...` (Dan. 2: 41)

Very distinct differences there. 

Can you find in Daniel that he included in any verse that there were 5 kingdoms? 
 

The feet were part of the 4th kingdom no different than the 2 arms of the 2nd kingdom… but there was no division in the 2nd kingdom. 
 

Only the little horn and papal Rome was arrogant enough to make a “kingdom of THEIR own making.”

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, douggg said:

Charlie and Marilyn, where are you reading in Daniel 2 about a divided kingdom ?

See 2:41 but when you unpack the entirely of chapter 2 you will find the when and why the 4th kingdom is divided. You can also find this in chapter 7.