Less Is More- Displacement

[Starise]

What could we remove that would be an improvement> Many comparisons come to mind. It's pretty obvious I am making a spiritual reference here, but we can make a comparitive analysis in other areas. If you're in a hot air ballon and it begins to drop dangerously low before landing time, what do we do? We try to add more gas to the balloon. But sometimes fuel is running low and the only choice is to lighten the load or risk serious injury or death.

If a person is over weight more fat won't help  will it? Today a big thing is to simplify, downsize, streamline. People move from big houses to small houses in order to make their lives less complicated and easier to live. I mean, if you can't find what you have, what's the use in having it?

Sometimes a little bit of a good thing is a good thing, but too much of it makes it a bad thing. This applies to many things I'm sure you may be picturing in your head right at this very moment.Some things are simply bad in any quantity. Less. more and everything in between.

Several eastern religious systems teach an emptying out. It seems counter productive because when you remove you and don't replace it with anything what's left? Generally it's an opening for the negative spiritual i.e. demons who pass as spiritual guides. Nothing will never be the epitome of anything because we really can never have nothing. No such thing. Everything is replaced by something else. It's either going to be an all consuming interest in us or some other power or interest. Some interests and pastimes can engulf us in such as way as to consume us and make us slaves to it. For believers this is idolatry if we pursue it over our Lord. 

One thing that commonly replaces God is love of others and love of oneself. We hear it in almost every pop and country song. If I just had that woman or man my life will be completed. Prepare to be miserably disappointed as we find the imperfections in those we held to such a high status. Yes having a good "soul mate" is a great thing and a blessing, however as something to make you complete as a person it falls short. The disappointment is so extreme sometimes that married people look for a replacement spouse or even go to the same sex thinking that will be more fulfilling if they had a disappointing experience with the opposite sex. The idea behind all of this is like we are all easter egg hunters looking for that grand prize in one form or another and we let these things fill us for a time only to be disappointed if expectations are high.

People fail us, material things don't fulfill totally. Vices are destructive and own us. Some people "pop" over this and get angry. Frustration is only the precursor to anger. Anger is an outward display of a lack of control. We have zero control, maybe we don't know how to proceed, so we yell at people and throw things, or worse we may hurt people.

Probably the most common phrase of the discontented is "if only". If only I could have this or that I would be complete. If only I could graduate with a Phd, if only I could marry that person, if only I could live in that country, if only.....

God is often the last place anyone looks, and people make up excuses to be mad at him or have maybe convinced themselves how unloving and bad God is. Remember the prodigal son in the bible? The story of a son who took his inheritance and thought that "if only" I get the money I can be happy. So he eventually finds himself in a pig sty. Even then it seems to take a long time before the light bulb goes off. Finally he begins to get it. "Hey, maybe I should go back to my Father, maybe He would have mercy on me? " His father in the story is like our Father. Many earthy fathers are not this merciful. He could have said, "you were a fool and you blew your inheritance, get out of here and never come back." But what did he do? He welcomes him back with open arms! Just as if nothing had ever happened! This is the love God has for all of us who are His, and the same love is extended to those who don't yet claim Him as their Father if they will just ask and confess.

The first step to our internal remodel is to realize how much we need one. The prodical son, after a long foray, realized it which is the best thing he could have ever done. Paul realized his need to empty himself for the better him through Jesus. In this process we are not becoming mindless zombies, but useful persons and better people. The better us is the God us. The empty us filled with him is the contented full us.

When we carry our cross daily it means to give everything to the Lord daily. This is really the only way to be filled. People talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit. How are we supposed to be filled when we haven't removed all of our garbage? It's a simple matter of displacement. A willingness to disguard what ever is necessary to attain our high callings. Anything less, is less.

 

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Starise said:

Several eastern religious systems teach an emptying out. It seems counter productive because when you remove you and don't replace it with anything what's left? Generally it's an opening for the negative spiritual i.e. demons who pass as spiritual guides.

Reminds me of some scriptures I have read concerning cleaning up my heart and mind. (for the almost persuaded unsaved)

“When an evil spirit leaves a person, it goes into the desert, seeking rest but finding none.

Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’
And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order.

Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself,
and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first.
So also will it be with this evil generation.”     Matthew 12:43-45

 

Matthew 12:43-45 The Message (MSG)
Quote; explained

“When a defiling evil spirit is expelled from someone, it drifts along through the desert looking for an oasis, some unsuspecting soul it can bedevil. When it doesn’t find anyone, it says, ‘I’ll go back to my old haunt.’ On return it finds the person spotlessly clean, but vacant. It then runs out and rounds up seven other spirits more evil than itself and they all move in, whooping it up. That person ends up far worse off than if he’d never gotten cleaned up in the first place. “That’s what this generation is like: You may think you have cleaned out the junk from your lives and gotten ready for God, but you weren’t hospitable to my kingdom message, and now all the devils are moving back in.”

Thanks Starise.....

 

[Mr. M]

5 hours ago, Starise said:

What could we remove that would be an improvement> Many comparisons come to mind. It's pretty obvious I am making a spiritual reference here, but we can make a comparitive analysis in other areas. If you're in a hot air ballon and it begins to drop dangerously low before landing time, what do we do? We try to add more gas to the balloon. But sometimes fuel is running low and the only choice is to lighten the load or risk serious injury or death.

If a person is over weight more fat won't help  will it? Today a big thing is to simplify, downsize, streamline. People move from big houses to small houses in order to make their lives less complicated and easier to live. I mean, if you can't find what you have, what's the use in having it?

Sometimes a little bit of a good thing is a good thing, but too much of it makes it a bad thing. This applies to many things I'm sure you may be picturing in your head right at this very moment.Some things are simply bad in any quantity. Less. more and everything in between.

Several eastern religious systems teach an emptying out. It seems counter productive because when you remove you and don't replace it with anything what's left? Generally it's an opening for the negative spiritual i.e. demons who pass as spiritual guides. Nothing will never be the epitome of anything because we really can never have nothing. No such thing. Everything is replaced by something else. It's either going to be an all consuming interest in us or some other power or interest. Some interests and pastimes can engulf us in such as way as to consume us and make us slaves to it. For believers this is idolatry if we pursue it over our Lord. 

One thing that commonly replaces God is love of others and love of oneself. We hear it in almost every pop and country song. If I just had that woman or man my life will be completed. Prepare to be miserably disappointed as we find the imperfections in those we held to such a high status. Yes having a good "soul mate" is a great thing and a blessing, however as something to make you complete as a person it falls short. The disappointment is so extreme sometimes that married people look for a replacement spouse or even go to the same sex thinking that will be more fulfilling if they had a disappointing experience with the opposite sex. The idea behind all of this is like we are all easter egg hunters looking for that grand prize in one form or another and we let these things fill us for a time only to be disappointed if expectations are high.

People fail us, material things don't fulfill totally. Vices are destructive and own us. Some people "pop" over this and get angry. Frustration is only the precursor to anger. Anger is an outward display of a lack of control. We have zero control, maybe we don't know how to proceed, so we yell at people and throw things, or worse we may hurt people.

Probably the most common phrase of the discontented is "if only". If only I could have this or that I would be complete. If only I could graduate with a Phd, if only I could marry that person, if only I could live in that country, if only.....

God is often the last place anyone looks, and people make up excuses to be mad at him or have maybe convinced themselves how unloving and bad God is. Remember the prodigal son in the bible? The story of a son who took his inheritance and thought that "if only" I get the money I can be happy. So he eventually finds himself in a pig sty. Even then it seems to take a long time before the light bulb goes off. Finally he begins to get it. "Hey, maybe I should go back to my Father, maybe He would have mercy on me? " His father in the story is like our Father. Many earthy fathers are not this merciful. He could have said, "you were a fool and you blew your inheritance, get out of here and never come back." But what did he do? He welcomes him back with open arms! Just as if nothing had ever happened! This is the love God has for all of us who are His, and the same love is extended to those who don't yet claim Him as their Father if they will just ask and confess.

The first step to our internal remodel is to realize how much we need one. The prodical son, after a long foray, realized it which is the best thing he could have ever done. Paul realized his need to empty himself for the better him through Jesus. In this process we are not becoming mindless zombies, but useful persons and better people. The better us is the God us. The empty us filled with him is the contented full us.

When we carry our cross daily it means to give everything to the Lord daily. This is really the only way to be filled. People talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit. How are we supposed to be filled when we haven't removed all of our garbage? It's a simple matter of displacement. A willingness to disguard what ever is necessary to attain our high callings. Anything less, is less.

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved,

let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit,

perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

What I find most prevalent in Christians is their ability to accommodate 

personal preferences, hobbies, fandom, etc... without any attempt to 

obey the admonition to "flee idolatry".

This is a well developed topic in scripture and using those guidelines,

it is easy to identify.

By way of personal examination, which is demanded and cannot

be avoided by labeling it "morbid introspection", we can

"take every thought captive to the obedience to Christ".

The goal is to put to death the desires of the flesh,

and is a commandment of Christ.

This is further glossed by labeling desires "lust" in translation,

thereby limiting the idea for many to such extremes as porn.

The utterly simple formula is this,

evaluate how you spend your time and money.

I reached a point where I quit playing on line chess.

Does that mean chess is an idol? Absolutely not!

Not in and of itself.

But I was spending a significant amount of money

as a portion of a limited income on a subscription 

for a full service website where I could train, study

and play chess in a variety of formats.

The amount of time I spent playing chess,was significant,

and the amount of time I spent thinking about games,

errors made, strategies I could have played, etc...

that I realized that I needed to at least step back 

for a season and find what filled the gap.

I immediately found the Lord speaking much more clearly to me.

Not that He was not before, but I was more receptive.

This is the cleaning up of the imaginations of the heart

to receive by the Spirit.

I can make the same testimony about music listening,

which used to be almost all the time in every situation.

Whether in the background, or even more productively

when spending time actually praising God.

Now, I am almost addicted to silence, and spending time

in quiet contemplation listening to the Spirit speak to my spirit.

This is the place of discipline, for I soon came to acknowledge

the things that the Spirit was trying to say and give direction,

but I simply wasn't listening before.

God never changes.

We have to be willing to change to go from glory to glory.

[Starise]

14 minutes ago, Sower said:

Reminds me of some scriptures I have read concerning cleaning up my heart and mind. (for the almost persuaded unsaved)

“When an evil spirit leaves a person, it goes into the desert, seeking rest but finding none.

Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’
And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order.

Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself,
and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first.
So also will it be with this evil generation.”     Matthew 12:43-45

 

Matthew 12:43-45 The Message (MSG)
Quote; explained

“When a defiling evil spirit is expelled from someone, it drifts along through the desert looking for an oasis, some unsuspecting soul it can bedevil. When it doesn’t find anyone, it says, ‘I’ll go back to my old haunt.’ On return it finds the person spotlessly clean, but vacant. It then runs out and rounds up seven other spirits more evil than itself and they all move in, whooping it up. That person ends up far worse off than if he’d never gotten cleaned up in the first place. “That’s what this generation is like: You may think you have cleaned out the junk from your lives and gotten ready for God, but you weren’t hospitable to my kingdom message, and now all the devils are moving back in.”

Thanks Starise.....

 

Thanks for your words @Sower. That's one word that bothers me a lot concerning the lost "almost" because almost is as good as a fail. Many times I take that personal even when I know I shouldn't, because as a harvester I want to naturally be a part of the harvest. I get tired of weeds don't you? I want to be successful at my callings, so almost never cuts it. It's sad. It's a reversal. People will say, God is working when we can't see him working and I believe that, however a fail and an almost isn't a win no matter how you slice it.

The last thing I want to hear is, "I almost accepted the Lord's love for me." Might be a wonderful person, but according to my bible it's not going to be a good ending for them no matter now good they think they are.

On demons- I have this idea that anyone who isn't a believer is a potential target for demons because they don't have the indwelling of the Spirit. I believe that to be true, so how do these demons make their choices, and how can our unsaved loved ones be protected from them? Even if not fully posessed, they can be influenced all the way to hell. I have met a few people who I was pretty sure were possessed and some I knew they were. Think about what that must do to the will of a person. Seems it should be a huge disadvantage to them in coming to Christ. Technically, they may have forefieted their chance from then on even though they may live another 30 years, yet there was Jesus casting them out and giving us all hope that these people still have a chance of some kind.

Can we pray them away from an unsaved person? I have attempted it because I wanted that person to have 100% control of their faculties. Not sure if the Lord honored that prayer or not. I want all to have a clear chance. I mean if you were demon possessed and seen what hell on earth this can be- UNLESS that's a blinding of some kind that they give the person a good life. So much illusion and lying involved, Satan being the father of lies. MOST people who had a serious issue with possession wanted to be freed from it. When 10 of them get into you the gloves come off. To me these things seem to be much more discrete so the host doesn't fully realize they are being used and that keeps many of them from seeing what it really is.

Those who got themselves way deep into it through the occult or though family occult ties, probaby need a miracle of some kind. Even Jesus said that some demons only go out by prayer and fasting.

 

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved,

let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit,

perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

What I find most prevalent in Christians is their ability to accommodate 

personal preferences, hobbies, fandom, etc... without any attempt to 

obey the admonition to "flee idolatry".

This is a well developed topic in scripture and using those guidelines,

it is easy to identify.

By way of personal examination, which is demanded and cannot

be avoided by labeling it "morbid introspection", we can

"take every thought captive to the obedience to Christ".

The goal is to put to death the desires of the flesh,

and is a commandment of Christ.

This is further glossed by labeling desires "lust" in translation,

thereby limiting the idea for many to such extremes as porn.

The utterly simple formula is this,

evaluate how you spend your time and money.

I reached a point where I quit playing on line chess.

Does that mean chess is an idol? Absolutely not!

Not in and of itself.

But I was spending a significant amount of money

as a portion of a limited income on a subscription 

for a full service website where I could train, study

and play chess in a variety of formats.

The amount of time I spent playing chess,was significant,

and the amount of time I spent thinking about games,

errors made, strategies I could have played, etc...

that I realized that I needed to at least step back 

for a season and find what filled the gap.

I immediately found the Lord speaking much more clearly to me.

Not that He was not before, but I was more receptive.

This is the cleaning up of the imaginations of the heart

to receive by the Spirit.

I can make the same testimony about music listening,

which used to be almost all the time in every situation.

Whether in the background, or even more productively

when spending time actually praising God.

Now, I am almost addicted to silence, and spending time

in quiet contemplation listening to the Spirit speak to my spirit.

This is the place of discipline, for I soon came to acknowledge

the things that the Spirit was trying to say and give direction,

but I simply wasn't listening before.

God never changes.

We have to be willing to change to go from glory to glory.

I could probably say the same about making music as you did about chess. I would spend days in the studio working on music.

As a church worship leader I was often consumed by the task and sometimes my hands went to the task more than the purpose because I wanted to get it right.  I sure tried to make it right for the Lord but in the process I think I was tilting that interest too far. I still do it but I don't place such a high priority on it. I sometimes promote to get the messages in my online music out. It's a lot like google in that for it to be heard it needs visibility. I make not a penny on any of it, or haven't so far.

God worked me though many hardships to put me on the right track. My recent treatments caused two fingers on my left hand to go numb, and after about a year I fell out of practice on the violin. Just now beginning to get the feeling back and playing guitar has seemed to help it. Somehow maybe unknown to me, He has some kind of a plan in all of it to bring me around. I have found that if I really love something a lot He seems to take whatever it is away from me or prune it way back.

I'm willing to change but it's still a tough road sometimes.

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, Starise said:

I could probably say the same about making music as you did about chess. I would spend days in the studio working on music.

As a church worship leader I was often consumed by the task and sometimes my hands went to the task more than the purpose because I wanted to get it right.  I sure tried to make it right for the Lord but in the process I think I was tilting that interest too far. I still do it but I don't place such a high priority on it. I sometimes promote to get the messages in my online music out. It's a lot like google in that for it to be heard it needs visibility. I make not a penny on any of it, or haven't so far.

God worked me though many hardships to put me on the right track. My recent treatments caused two fingers on my left hand to go numb, and after about a year I fell out of practice on the violin. Just now beginning to get the feeling back and playing guitar has seemed to help it. Somehow maybe unknown to me, He has some kind of a plan in all of it to bring me around. I have found that if I really love something a lot He seems to take whatever it is away from me or prune it way back.

I'm willing to change but it's still a tough road sometimes.

Thanks for sharing that. We can generalize and just call it pride,

but what is deep seated in every person is the need for the approval

and commendation of others. I started a thread today that I hope you

will check out asking "When Is The Heart Circumcised"? I am going 

to tip my hand to you now. It is when we no longer need that approval.

It is evident in the verses I quote from Romans 2:28, 29

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, 

in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

[Starise]

12 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Thanks for sharing that. We can generalize and just call it pride,

but what is deep seated in every person is the need for the approval

and commendation of others. I started a thread today that I hope you

will check out asking "When Is The Heart Circumcised"? I am going 

to tip my hand to you now. It is when we no longer need that approval.

It is evident in the verses I quote from Romans 2:28, 29

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, 

in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Thanks for these words,

Yes definitely pride is behind a lot of trouble. When a pastor thinks this is MY church we have a problem.

In order to come to Christ we need to admit and confess sin which requires humility in the admission that we are sinners and we need His help.People are not generally disposed to humility. I see this often, " can I offer you a ride?" Oh NO I can go there myself, even though the trip is on my way and would have saved some energy. Try to give some people something and they will not accept it unless they pay you for it.

Pride in the Christian apparently still hangs on even after we were humble to confess our sins and ask foregiveness.

I agree we all like approval which makes the Christian life difficult because we often get the very opposite in the form of rejection. I like to be liked and I hate to be hated. If someone doesn't like me I wonder why, when really they are offended by the gospel not me. As Christ's representatives we need thick skin.

[Marathoner]

Better that change doesn't come upon us under traumatic circumstances. I'm assured that if it does, it's needful. This confidence is found expressed in Romans 8:28. 

I learned about the value of possessions when I lost them all so that, when I found myself with possessions again, I was wise about those things. "Only what I need, and a little of what I want" is just fine. 

Ah, but what we possess isn't confined to material goods alone. It can be our health, ability to engage in activities we took for granted, and so on. What happened to me with regard to the ability to use musical instruments is similar in a way to what you shared, @Starise. 

For me, it was two-pronged: when I lost everything, that included my guitars. Because food and shelter were greater priorities than laying my hands on another guitar, I fell out of practice. I had to eat so I could find work. I didn't have enough at any given time to afford musical instruments. 

After my right hand was broken, it irrevocably changed that hand. So, once I found myself with enough to acquire a little of what I want --- a guitar --- I found myself incapable of doing what I used to do with one. I have to start from the beginning all over again; my right hand must be reconditioned and retrained. It's a hard road, so I must build up the resolve to sit down with that guitar and work on it. 

I only do it infrequently because playing the guitar is not what the Lord called me to do. It's my own thing... not that there's anything wrong with that. I've become accustomed to living with less so this is still "new" to me. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Marathoner

[Starise]

14 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Better that change doesn't come upon us under traumatic circumstances. I'm assured that if it does, it's needful. This confidence is found expressed in Romans 8:28. 

I learned about the value of possessions when I lost them all so that, when I found myself with possessions again, I was wise about those things. "Only what I need, and a little of what I want" is just fine. 

Ah, but what we possess isn't confined to material goods alone. It can be our health, ability to engage in activities we took for granted, and so on. What happened to me with regard to the ability to use musical instruments is similar in a way to what you shared, @Starise. 

For me, it was two-pronged: when I lost everything, that included my guitars. Because food and shelter were greater priorities than laying my hands on another guitar, I fell out of practice. I had to eat so I could find work. I didn't have enough at any given time to afford musical instruments. 

After my right hand was broken, it irrevocably changed that hand. So, once I found myself with enough to acquire a little of what I want --- a guitar --- I found myself incapable of doing what I used to do with one. I have to start from the beginning all over again; my right hand must be reconditioned and retrained. It's a hard road, so I must build up the resolve to sit down with that guitar and work on it. 

I only do it infrequently because playing the guitar is not what the Lord called me to do. It's my own thing... not that there's anything wrong with that. I've become accustomed to living with less so this is still "new" to me. 

I hope you are able to play the way you would like again @Marathoner. 

If there's one thing I could point out that I really dislike about the holiday is the commercialism and materialism. So empty and short lived. People mobbing stores for TV sets and similar. Is that really happiness today? A 75" TV set and a 300.00 pair of Nikes? Oh don't forget the iPhones and smart watches. Nice gizmos to own, but still what a short sighted drive when we could go so much further.

[Marathoner]

45 minutes ago, Starise said:

I hope you are able to play the way you would like again @Marathoner. 

If there's one thing I could point out that I really dislike about the holiday is the commercialism and materialism. So empty and short lived. People mobbing stores for TV sets and similar. Is that really happiness today? A 75" TV set and a 300.00 pair of Nikes? Oh don't forget the iPhones and smart watches. Nice gizmos to own, but still what a short sighted drive when we could go so much further.

Exactly, brother. With the explosion of advertising activity during the late 19th century... it all began with nationally-circulated printed periodicals... commercialism sought to exploit cultural customs through behavioral modification. 

Yeah, I know that sounds like something out of a collegiate research paper. What can I say? Studying the civilations of man was my specialty back then. The fact that what I learned was duly reflected in the scriptures regarding mankind (Romans 3) vindicated that pursuit. My eyes were opened wide to our vanity. The more you learn, the less you wish didn't know.

Behavioral modification of the target audience is the goal of advertising, my friend. It's also the stock and trade of modern media presentations, yes? The rise of consumerism is directly related to population growth, supply and demand, and competition in market spaces. 

Advertising wasn't born out of a need to spread the word; it developed out of the desire to acquire greater market share and thus, increased revenue flow. After radio and eventually TV came around the "dark side" of human psychology was drawn upon to manipulate the unwary into increasing an advertiser's market share. Expoiting the weakness of the flesh for their own gain, in other words. Those who are good at it make obscene sums of money.

Mammon is their god: the love of money. That's the primary object of worship in this world of man. This hasn't changed in thousands of years. 

That's also the issue I have with the holidays, brother. The malevolent machinations of manipulative merchants.