Holding Out

[WordSword]

14 hours ago, TheBlade said:

You stated it as fact for both yet you never gave a scripture. What is a trial? They say  A trial is an examination by testing. Biblically, it is a test of faith in which you experience trouble or adversity. If this is what it means then God had no hand in it. Some use this in the case of Job that God allowed it. Another rabbit hole. Odd we need it here but not in heaven.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! I think its interesting to note that the trials or "tests" are not to determine pass or failure, but are always for strengthening our faith. Every difficulty we encounter will manifest that "God works everything together for good to those who love Him (Ro 8:28). 

[Know Jah]

I was thinking on Jobs account in the bible. God didn't cause his trial but he allowed it

[WordSword]

21 hours ago, Know Jah said:

I was thinking on Jobs account in the bible. God didn't cause his trial but he allowed it

I see it that God wanted to show Satan and everyone the exceptional servitude Job possessed, by instigating the issue (Job 1:8).

It's ok if God starts something that's always good for those who are His!

[Know Jah]

so are you saying that God "caused" the suffering of Job?

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

There was a hedge about him as Satan points out

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? 
thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

That hedge was removed and he was given into Satan's hands

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity,  although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Both God and Job agree its without cause

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

God allowed this and Job saw both good and evil coming to him all being at the hand of God as he said to his wife

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

And in saying that its noted he did not sin with his lips

Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

Edited January 9, 2024 by AFlameOfFire

[WordSword]

3 hours ago, Know Jah said:

so are you saying that God "caused" the suffering of Job?

Yes, but regardless of how a trial develops, God uses it "for good unto those who love Him" (Ro 8:28).

[WordSword]

2 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

 although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

It's my understanding that the phrase "without cause" is in the sense that there was no apparent reason for it to occur. But I don't think anything happens without cause, and that, for a good reason since He "works everything" that happens "for good."

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 minute ago, WordSword said:

It's my understanding that the phrase "without cause" is in the sense that there was no apparent reason for it to occur. But I don't think anything happens without cause, and that, for a good reason since He "works everything" that happens "for good."

Just says, without cause means

1. freely, for nothing, without cause

   1. gratis, gratuitously, for nothing

   2. for no purpose, in vain

   3. gratuitously, without cause, undeservedly

[WordSword]

19 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Just says, without cause means

1. freely, for nothing, without cause

   1. gratis, gratuitously, for nothing

   2. for no purpose, in vain

   3. gratuitously, without cause, undeservedly

I would say that "no purpose" is the same thing.

[Know Jah]

Here again the scriptures states God test/tries no one with evil. Therefore I can see a loving God putting Job through all that he went through just to prove a point. I can clearly see that Satan caused all of Jobs suffering and God allowed it.