Daniel's 70 Weeks - WITHOUT ANY NT SOURCING

[JoeCanada]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:28 PM, Charlie744 said:

If you can accept the cross is the "AOD"

Charlie...... brother,

I'm sorry but I just cannot wrap my head around this idea that the "cross is the AOD"

To me, the "cross"  ie: "the crucifixion" is the greatest manifestation of God's love for the world.

Just as scripture says.... "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (as a sacrifice on the cross)"

To then call this "an abomination" is, well, an abomination itself.

In Matthew 23, which is before the cross, Jesus had many words to say to the Jews. And they weren't pretty. Eight woes! And He finished off with telling them that their house is left to them 'desolate'..... and "You will not see Me again until you say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"

Their house was declared by Jesus to be desolate before the cross. Their house, ie: their temple, their tabernacle, their place of worship.....DESOLATE!

On 2/2/2024 at 8:28 PM, Charlie744 said:

The AOD or the Abomination that causes desolation is the cross. Obviously, this occured at the time of the Messiah before the end of the 490 year prophecy. It is my belief Jesus is speaking to His immediate audience as they are essentially asked to "read and let them understand."

If Jesus was asking the disciples to "read and understand".......... then, 

What was it they were supposed to read and understand, since the first Gospel was not written until 40 years later?

And I don't think it was the Book of Daniel because Daniel was told that "these words are concealed until the end time".... Dan 12:9

On 2/2/2024 at 8:28 PM, Charlie744 said:

In Matthew, he states that this "abomination" will be standing in the holy place. This is not a figure of speech, but rather someone literally standing in the holy place. This is referring to the Messiah. Certainly, Jesus came to the Temple, and He would be found "standing in the holy place". 

Brother...... you are saying "Jesus is the abomination standing in the holy place".

NOPE...... NADA......NEVER......Will I accept this statement. Never!

"This is My beloved Son, with  whom I am well pleased".... Math 17:5

 

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Charlie...... brother,

I'm sorry but I just cannot wrap my head around this idea that the "cross is the AOD"

To me, the "cross"  ie: "the crucifixion" is the greatest manifestation of God's love for the world.

Just as scripture says.... "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (as a sacrifice on the cross)"

Great to hear from you, as usual. And please do not be sorry!!!!  I am sure you will easily agree, NO ONE has offered that the AOD is the Cross. EVERYONE has attempted to pin this on a destructive event such as a the Temple (some attribute it to the Temple corrupted by Epiphanies, others attribute it to the destruction in 70AD, and still others attribute it to the destruction of a supposed 3rd Temple in the future). But, NONE of these could meet the definition of an “abomination” that causes complete desolation!

After all, God allowed the 1st Temple to be completely destroyed. He allowed the 2nd Temple to be destroyed… He would restore the Temple after Babylon because He needed it and everything if Israel to be fully restored FOR HIS ARRIVAL IN THE FIRST DAY IF THE 70th WEEK, SO HE COULD FULFILL HIS GID GIVEN MISSION (9:24). 
 

The 2nd Temple AND all of the other pieces of furniture in the Sanctuary, the Levitical sacrifices and offerings, the first 4 of the 7 feast days were no longer necessary. Their mission within His plan of salvation was fulfilled. They had NO importance- ever again. Consequently, their destruction is meaningless WITHIN His Plan!

I believe you may be having an issue with trying to consider the most selfless, unimaginable event in the history of mankind with a term (abomination) that is certainly only negative and perhaps repulsive. But that is exactly why the Cross is such an “abomination.” The Jews have already been seen to disobey God and turn to idolatry- the entire OT is full of their failures and atrocities against God and their fellow man (even burning / sacrificing their own children to other Gods).  
 But God would always forgive them IF they returned to Him. 
 

But this time would be so different. Now, they would be guilty of crucifying their own God.. the One they were expecting to come. This is on another level that could not be equaled! The greatest sacrifice and event would easily be seen as such an “abomination!”

What could Israel possibly to that would be a greater, or more horrific event.. one that would cause God to turn away from them totally and completely for 2000 years? 
 

It took me quite a while to see this… only God would reveal this as I was attempting to interpret these unbelievably difficult verses in Daniel. 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 

To then call this "an abomination" is, well, an abomination itself.

In Matthew 23, which is before the cross, Jesus had many words to say to the Jews. And they weren't pretty. Eight woes! And He finished off with telling them that their house is left to them 'desolate'..... and "You will not see Me again until you say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"

I don’t know if you will agree with me on this, but this last comment - “you will not see me…” IS HIS END TIME PROPHECY. For 2000 years, God would turn away from His people as a result of their rejection and crucifying Him. But, at the time of the end of the Gentiles, God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people, and they will “see the One they pierced.” 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Their house was declared by Jesus to be desolate before the cross. Their house, ie: their temple, their tabernacle, their place of worship.....DESOLATE

Not exactly. As I mentioned above, the physical elements- the Temple, the Sanctuary, etc., were ALL done away with. From God’s point of view, they have served their purpose.. their mission was fulfilled. No longer important!

The Temple, the Sanctuary, the Levitical ceremonies associated with the 4 feast days had nothing to do with their rejection or crucifixion of Jesus. It WAS HIS PEOPLE who caused such a horrific tragedy to occur. It therefore required God to make THEM desolate from HIS presence. Their treatment / rejection and crucifixion of God demanded a complete separation or made desolate with their God! What punishment could be worse? What act (that the Jews have already been guilty of on so many occasions) be the cause for God to turn away from His people for over 2009 years? NOTHING could come close! 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

If Jesus was asking the disciples to "read and understand".......... then, 

What was it they were supposed to read and understand, since the first Gospel was not written until 40 years later?

Great point! But remember, God purposely blinded the eyes of His people from recognizing He was their Messiah. They HAD NO CHOICE IN THIS. As well read, as brilliant, as righteous as perhaps any Jew that was alone at the time of Christ… as well as he knew the Scriptures inside and out, he too would be blinded by God from recognizing Jesus- this was His plan all along!

Consequently, Jesus is here telling them that AFTER the Cross, they will / can return to the Scriptures and understand how the prophecies and the Words in other books than just Daniel were speaking of Him. 

 

 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

And I don't think it was the Book of Daniel because Daniel was told that "these words are concealed until the end time".... Dan 12:9

You are right !!! But please consider;

There are at least two verses in Daniel that speak of this -. “seal up or shut up these words… “.

One in chapter 8 or 9 ( can’t remember), is where Gabriel tells Daniel this.. this is NOT to mean these prophetic words are “end time” prophecies and they will be sealed up until the end… 

No, they were written for the Jews (Gabriel tells us that). But the chapters beginning in chapter 8 are ALL written in Hebrew not  Aramaic. They would not be physically written until AfTER Cyrus took the throne.. Daniel would wall the other chapters in Aramaic during the 70 years in Babylon. Daniel was prohibited from speaking or writing in Hebrew while under Babylonian rule. When Cyrus allowed them to return, Daniel would no longer be under Babylonian rule and would be free to once again be “everything Jewish”. So, the prophecies that spoke to the Jews after they would return to Jerusalem were “sealed up” for THEIR view only.. They had nothing to do with Babylon or the Gentiles.

However in chapter 12, it had a different meaning. It means that God had indeed given Daniel ALL of His Messianic prophecies. No other prophet will be given Messianic prophecies.. These are COMPLETE. God had given man all the prophecies about His coming in Daniel. Seal them up, write them down, they are complete in all their ways. 

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Brother...... you are saying "Jesus is the abomination standing in the holy place".

I understand! But these words came out of the mouth of Jesus!!!! Certainly, He was standing in the holy place! He was God… He belonged there despite the Jews believing He was just a prophet, a teacher, a great and kind fellow. Remember, it was Jesus who accepted this role and fulfilled the command of His Father. The NT speaks of this … This was His plan from the beginning of the world!

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

NOPE...... NADA......NEVER......Will I accept this statement. Never!

"This is My beloved Son, with  whom I am well pleased".... Math 17:5

 

Yes! Only the Messiah was perfect, sinless, and only His sacrifice could or would be accepted by His Father for the forgiveness of OUR sins. There is nothing we could offer or do to remove the sins from His sight. 
 

I understand it is difficult to consider this new interpretation, but Daniel is all about Him, and since we have total understanding of what actually took place, it is easy to see how the actual events can be matched to the verses in Daniel. 
 

Thanks for your comments, and don’t stop asking should you have interest. Best wishes always, Charlie 

[douggg]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Great to hear from you, as usual. And please do not be sorry!!!!  I am sure you will easily agree, NO ONE has offered that the AOD is the Cross. EVERYONE has attempted to pin this on a destructive event such as a the Temple (some attribute it to the Temple corrupted by Epiphanies, others attribute it to the destruction in 70AD, and still others attribute it to the destruction of a supposed 3rd Temple in the future). But, NONE of these could meet the definition of an “abomination” that causes complete desolation!

After all, God allowed the 1st Temple to be completely destroyed. He allowed the 2nd Temple to be destroyed… He would restore the Temple after Babylon because He needed it and everything if Israel to be fully restored FOR HIS ARRIVAL IN THE FIRST DAY IF THE 70th WEEK, SO HE COULD FULFILL HIS GID GIVEN MISSION (9:24). 
 

The 2nd Temple AND all of the other pieces of furniture in the Sanctuary, the Levitical sacrifices and offerings, the first 4 of the 7 feast days were no longer necessary. Their mission within His plan of salvation was fulfilled. They had NO importance- ever again. Consequently, their destruction is meaningless WITHIN His Plan!

I believe you may be having an issue with trying to consider the most selfless, unimaginable event in the history of mankind with a term (abomination) that is certainly only negative and perhaps repulsive. But that is exactly why the Cross is such an “abomination.” The Jews have already been seen to disobey God and turn to idolatry- the entire OT is full of their failures and atrocities against God and their fellow man (even burning / sacrificing their own children to other Gods).  
 But God would always forgive them IF they returned to Him. 
 

But this time would be so different. Now, they would be guilty of crucifying their own God.. the One they were expecting to come. This is on another level that could not be equaled! The greatest sacrifice and event would easily be seen as such an “abomination!”

What could Israel possibly to that would be a greater, or more horrific event.. one that would cause God to turn away from them totally and completely for 2000 years? 
 

It took me quite a while to see this… only God would reveal this as I was attempting to interpret these unbelievably difficult verses in Daniel. 

I don’t know if you will agree with me on this, but this last comment - “you will not see me…” IS HIS END TIME PROPHECY. For 2000 years, God would turn away from His people as a result of their rejection and crucifying Him. But, at the time of the end of the Gentiles, God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people, and they will “see the One they pierced.” 

Not exactly. As I mentioned above, the physical elements- the Temple, the Sanctuary, etc., were ALL done away with. From God’s point of view, they have served their purpose.. their mission was fulfilled. No longer important!

The Temple, the Sanctuary, the Levitical ceremonies associated with the 4 feast days had nothing to do with their rejection or crucifixion of Jesus. It WAS HIS PEOPLE who caused such a horrific tragedy to occur. It therefore required God to make THEM desolate from HIS presence. Their treatment / rejection and crucifixion of God demanded a complete separation or made desolate with their God! What punishment could be worse? What act (that the Jews have already been guilty of on so many occasions) be the cause for God to turn away from His people for over 2009 years? NOTHING could come close! 

Great point! But remember, God purposely blinded the eyes of His people from recognizing He was their Messiah. They HAD NO CHOICE IN THIS. As well read, as brilliant, as righteous as perhaps any Jew that was alone at the time of Christ… as well as he knew the Scriptures inside and out, he too would be blinded by God from recognizing Jesus- this was His plan all along!

Consequently, Jesus is here telling them that AFTER the Cross, they will / can return to the Scriptures and understand how the prophecies and the Words in other books than just Daniel were speaking of Him. 

 

 

You are right !!! But please consider;

There are at least two verses in Daniel that speak of this -. “seal up or shut up these words… “.

One in chapter 8 or 9 ( can’t remember), is where Gabriel tells Daniel this.. this is NOT to mean these prophetic words are “end time” prophecies and they will be sealed up until the end… 

No, they were written for the Jews (Gabriel tells us that). But the chapters beginning in chapter 8 are ALL written in Hebrew not  Aramaic. They would not be physically written until AfTER Cyrus took the throne.. Daniel would wall the other chapters in Aramaic during the 70 years in Babylon. Daniel was prohibited from speaking or writing in Hebrew while under Babylonian rule. When Cyrus allowed them to return, Daniel would no longer be under Babylonian rule and would be free to once again be “everything Jewish”. So, the prophecies that spoke to the Jews after they would return to Jerusalem were “sealed up” for THEIR view only.. They had nothing to do with Babylon or the Gentiles.

However in chapter 12, it had a different meaning. It means that God had indeed given Daniel ALL of His Messianic prophecies. No other prophet will be given Messianic prophecies.. These are COMPLETE. God had given man all the prophecies about His coming in Daniel. Seal them up, write them down, they are complete in all their ways. 

I understand! But these words came out of the mouth of Jesus!!!! Certainly, He was standing in the holy place! He was God… He belonged there despite the Jews believing He was just a prophet, a teacher, a great and kind fellow. Remember, it was Jesus who accepted this role and fulfilled the command of His Father. The NT speaks of this … This was His plan from the beginning of the world!

Yes! Only the Messiah was perfect, sinless, and only His sacrifice could or would be accepted by His Father for the forgiveness of OUR sins. There is nothing we could offer or do to remove the sins from His sight. 
 

I understand it is difficult to consider this new interpretation, but Daniel is all about Him, and since we have total understanding of what actually took place, it is easy to see how the actual events can be matched to the verses in Daniel. 
 

Thanks for your comments, and don’t stop asking should you have interest. Best wishes always, Charlie 

The ToD transgression of desolation is the act by the Antichrist to sit in the temple (to be built) and claim to have achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:4

He will be killed for it, and then becomes the beast.

The AoD abomination of desolation, the standing statue image of the beast, is then made and placed on the temple mount.   Matthew 24:15-21.    The Jews then begin fleeing to the mountains.

 

Edited February 6 by douggg

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

The ToD transgression of desolation is the act by the Antichrist to sit in the temple (to be built) and claim to have achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:4

He will be killed for it, and then becomes the beast.

The AoD abomination of desolation, the standing statue image of the beast, is then made and placed on the temple mount.   Matthew 24:15-21.    The Jews then begin fleeing to the mountains.

 

Doug, I have been down this road with you before and I mentioned more than once that Daniel is NOT a book focusing on the end times.

It is about the coming of the Messiah and His plan of salvation- His mission given to Him by the Father. 
 

I would ask that you start in chapter 2 and attempt to interpret the verses in Daniel as they focus / pertain to the coming Messiah in the first century (4th kingdom in the 4 part statue), and follow how the 70 weeks of years prophecy speaks about Him, the restoration of the Hews back to Jerusalem, the beginnings of His earthly church and the corruption of His church by the little horn by the 500 AD timeline. 
 

There are hundreds of folks within and without this site that believe as you do— end time prophecies, boogeymen or an anti/Christ figure, a 7 year tribulation where the last week of the prophecy is thrown 2000 years in the future… this ALL began in the 16th century BY THE LITTLE HORN. 
 

This is truly the work of the evil one of Daniel 7,8,9 and 11 (little horn).

I completely understand that almost everyone has drank the kool-aid since there is NO other serious interpretation that has been offered. But I am more than sure that my NEW INTERPRETATIONS, which focus on the Messiah and His plan of salvation / restoration for the Jews and mankind (by virtue of their rejection of their Messiah), is the only APPROACH that should be considered in Daniel. 
 

At the beginning of my study on Daniel (5 years ago), I read, learned and studied today’s accepted interpretations on Daniel. I had not read Daniel prior to that time. I simply wanted to understand Daniel, but there was absolutely NO CONSENSUS ON THE APPROXIMATE 35 (or more) of the MAJOR INTERPRETATIONS found within Daniel! 
 
No consistency, no consensus, many times there were literal and figurative interpretations within the same adjoining verses, many, many times, verses were and not interpreted because they were too difficult. I could go on and on about how “todays accepted interpretations” offered by the most brilliant and respected scholars and academics conflict with each other, and absolutely fail to realize their own work does not present a clear, consistent story from chapter 1 to 12- and it should because it is God inspired. And it does because it is God inspired! 
 

Look within these verses and search for the Messiah and you WILL FIND THE UNDERSTANDING AND INTERPRETATIONS HE HAS LEFT FOR US. THIS IS HIS STORY… IT IS NOT A HISTORY OF THE FOUR KINGDOMS WHERE HE REVEALS HIS PLAN OF SALVATION AND HIS FIRST COMING. 
 

So, I respectfully do not need to consider today’s accepted interpretations since I have already done so (over those 5 years), and found them so, so flawed! 
 

Thanks, Charlie 
 

 

 

[douggg]

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

There are hundreds of folks within and without this site that believe as you do— end time prophecies, boogeymen or an anti/Christ figure, a 7 year tribulation where the last week of the prophecy is thrown 2000 years in the future… this ALL began in the 16th century BY THE LITTLE HORN.

It sounds like you are more concerned about the book of Daniel being about the pope than being about the messiah and the gospel of salvation.

---------------------------------------------

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Jews, Jerusalem, and the messiah.

Have the Jews embraced Jesus as the messiah and the gospel of salvation yet ?

Has Jesus returned ?   Jerusalem saying "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"?

Has the little horn, who commits the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:11-14, been broken without hand when he stands up against the Prince of princes.    Is the Prince of princes - Jesus, the messiah?

Has the abomination of desolation of 1290 days and 1335 days been set up yet ?

What is the relationship between the transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation.    Are the Jews and Jerusalem involved ?    Is the messiah involved in cleansing the temple in Daniel 8:14?

[Charlie744]

7 hours ago, douggg said:

It sounds like you are more concerned about the book of Daniel being about the pope than being about the messiah and the gospel of salvation.

---------------------------------------------

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Jews, Jerusalem, and the messiah.

Have the Jews embraced Jesus as the messiah and the gospel of salvation yet ?

Has Jesus returned ?   Jerusalem saying "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"?

Has the little horn, who commits the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:11-14, been broken without hand when he stands up against the Prince of princes.    Is the Prince of princes - Jesus, the messiah?

Has the abomination of desolation of 1290 days and 1335 days been set up yet ?

What is the relationship between the transgression of desolation and the abomination of desolation.    Are the Jews and Jerusalem involved ?    Is the messiah involved in cleansing the temple in Daniel 8:14?

Doug, I have already answered almost all of these comment / questions before- some more than once. Thank you for your response. 
 

 

[douggg]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Doug, I have already answered almost all of these comment / questions before- some more than once. Thank you for your response. 
 

 

Charlie, nobody I have ever heard ever disagrees that Matthew 24:30b is Jesus's Second Coming.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now look at the verses in Ezekiel 39:21-29.   Who is speaking in those verses?   It is Jesus Himself having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Charlie, the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9 is the 7 years of verses 9-10 in Ezekiel 39, following the Gog/Magog event.

-----------------------------------------

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years, then Armageddon verses 17-20, then Jesus's Second Coming verses 21-29.

Edited February 8 by douggg

[Charlie744]

28 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, nobody I have ever heard ever disagrees that Matthew 24:30b is Jesus's Second Coming.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now look at the verses in Ezekiel 39:21-29.   Who is speaking in those verses?   It is Jesus Himself having returned to this earth, His Second Coming.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Charlie, the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9 is the 7 years of verses 9-10 in Ezekiel 39, following the Gog/Magog event.

-----------------------------------------

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years, then Armageddon verses 17-20, then Jesus's Second Coming verses 21-29.

I don’t ever remember speaking about Matthew 24:30b, nor the other references in Ezekiel or discussing Gog or Magic. 
 

I have studied and commented on Daniel and if there is / was a relevant verse in the NT that spoke or referred to in Daniel (especially that came out of the mouth of Jesus) then  I would mention it. 

I suggest you study the most important Messianic prophecy in Daniel referred to as the 70 weeks of years prophecy. There is no gap mentioned, inferred, or to be considered within the 490 or 70 separated periods that are also intimately connected to the 4th and final Great Jubilee Cycle. 
 

Chapter 9 is the most unbelievable prophecy in the Bible and that is because it reveals the coming of the Messiah. God brilliantly and intentionally included His first coming at the end of this 3 part separated 70 week prophecy. 
 

The Jews had an obligation to restore all the physical elements of the city, the Temple, the sacrificial services and offerings. They had to reinstate all the Levitical ceremonies and 7 feast days AFTER THEY WERE ALLOWED TO RETURN TO JERUSALEM. The time frame was these would be completed BEFORE the Messiah COULD return. He could and would not arrive to fulfill His God given mission (9:24) if all of those things were not restored. 
 

The Messiah arrived EXACTLY on the first day of the beginning of the last week of the prophecy (70 th week). He began His ministry on the day He was anointed by God and was baptized in the Jordan by John. This was also God the Father’s way of showing us He is both God and man on earth. THUS, THE 70th WEEK HAD BEGUN - NO GAP AFTER THE END OF THE 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week. 

God had specifically “set aside” the only element required to be restored after the destruction by the Babylonians that could only be restored by the Messiah. The very first article taken away (just before Babylon came) was the Ark of the Covenant. It would never be seen ever again! However, the Messiah would represent the presence of God in the Sanctuary (Ark). All of the articles and pieces of furniture would be restored in the exact reverse order they were taken or destroyed. 
 

Thus, the Messiah would arrive AFTER the 69th week to fulfill His mission DURING THE LAST WEEK OR 7 YEARS. 
 

Instead, you and  accepted interpretations feel the most important week of this prophecy DOES NOT BELONG TO THE MESSIAH. Yet, the verses that the little horn (papacy) have intentionally misinterpreted in chapter 9, have been attributed to some mythical anti-Christ figure that will enter into a 7 year agreement with the Jews at the end times!!!!!!

There is NO doubt the Messiah was crucified “in the midst” of the last week of the prophecy. Exactly 3.5 years into the final week He went to the cross. He prophesied in Jeremiah that He would CONFIRM the Covenant with His people - this was done at the cross. The Covenant is NOT a “7 year agreement” - God does not limit His Covenants with man for a number of years!!!

This Covenant was CONFIRMED DURING THE last 7 years. The translation is NOT THE WORD “FOR 7 YEARS”, but “ THE 7 YEARS” of the prophecy. 
 

God is not carving up any of the verses / events in 9:24-27) that speak to anyone other than His Messiah. He is not separating those verses / actual events that took place during those 3.5 years in the last week to be sent out some 2000 years in the future. God is not interested in speaking about some anti-Christ figure but ONLY about His Messiah AND THE MOST IMPORTANT WEEK IN THE HISTORY IF MANKIND! 
 

I believe you and many, many others have accepted the gross, evil, intentional misinterpretations that literally were created by the little horn of Daniel during the 16th century. 
 

I am sorry Doug, you are simply  so invested in your end time interpretations and your charts, etc., that you do not or cannot accept these verses speak about our Lord and Savior DURING the last week in the 70 weeks prophecy. 
 

I have accepted that you believe in your interpretation and I also believe that those scholars, academics and theologians who accept the “futurist” interpretation believe  it as well. But I believe God is writing about the most important week in the history of mankind- the last 3.5 years of the prophecy AND it is all about Jesus. 
 

Best wishes, Charlie 
 

 

[douggg]

10 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I don’t ever remember speaking about Matthew 24:30b, nor the other references in Ezekiel or discussing Gog or Magic. 
 

I have studied and commented on Daniel and if there is / was a relevant verse in the NT that spoke or referred to in Daniel (especially that came out of the mouth of Jesus) then  I would mention it. 

I suggest you study the most important Messianic prophecy in Daniel referred to as the 70 weeks of years prophecy. There is no gap mentioned, inferred, or to be considered within the 490 or 70 separated periods that are also intimately connected to the 4th and final Great Jubilee Cycle. 
 

Chapter 9 is the most unbelievable prophecy in the Bible and that is because it reveals the coming of the Messiah. God brilliantly and intentionally included His first coming at the end of this 3 part separated 70 week prophecy. 
 

The Jews had an obligation to restore all the physical elements of the city, the Temple, the sacrificial services and offerings. They had to reinstate all the Levitical ceremonies and 7 feast days AFTER THEY WERE ALLOWED TO RETURN TO JERUSALEM. The time frame was these would be completed BEFORE the Messiah COULD return. He could and would not arrive to fulfill His God given mission (9:24) if all of those things were not restored. 
 

The Messiah arrived EXACTLY on the first day of the beginning of the last week of the prophecy (70 th week). He began His ministry on the day He was anointed by God and was baptized in the Jordan by John. This was also God the Father’s way of showing us He is both God and man on earth. THUS, THE 70th WEEK HAD BEGUN - NO GAP AFTER THE END OF THE 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week. 

God had specifically “set aside” the only element required to be restored after the destruction by the Babylonians that could only be restored by the Messiah. The very first article taken away (just before Babylon came) was the Ark of the Covenant. It would never be seen ever again! However, the Messiah would represent the presence of God in the Sanctuary (Ark). All of the articles and pieces of furniture would be restored in the exact reverse order they were taken or destroyed. 
 

Thus, the Messiah would arrive AFTER the 69th week to fulfill His mission DURING THE LAST WEEK OR 7 YEARS. 
 

Instead, you and  accepted interpretations feel the most important week of this prophecy DOES NOT BELONG TO THE MESSIAH. Yet, the verses that the little horn (papacy) have intentionally misinterpreted in chapter 9, have been attributed to some mythical anti-Christ figure that will enter into a 7 year agreement with the Jews at the end times!!!!!!

There is NO doubt the Messiah was crucified “in the midst” of the last week of the prophecy. Exactly 3.5 years into the final week He went to the cross. He prophesied in Jeremiah that He would CONFIRM the Covenant with His people - this was done at the cross. The Covenant is NOT a “7 year agreement” - God does not limit His Covenants with man for a number of years!!!

This Covenant was CONFIRMED DURING THE last 7 years. The translation is NOT THE WORD “FOR 7 YEARS”, but “ THE 7 YEARS” of the prophecy. 
 

God is not carving up any of the verses / events in 9:24-27) that speak to anyone other than His Messiah. He is not separating those verses / actual events that took place during those 3.5 years in the last week to be sent out some 2000 years in the future. God is not interested in speaking about some anti-Christ figure but ONLY about His Messiah AND THE MOST IMPORTANT WEEK IN THE HISTORY IF MANKIND! 
 

I believe you and many, many others have accepted the gross, evil, intentional misinterpretations that literally were created by the little horn of Daniel during the 16th century. 
 

I am sorry Doug, you are simply  so invested in your end time interpretations and your charts, etc., that you do not or cannot accept these verses speak about our Lord and Savior DURING the last week in the 70 weeks prophecy. 
 

I have accepted that you believe in your interpretation and I also believe that those scholars, academics and theologians who accept the “futurist” interpretation believe  it as well. But I believe God is writing about the most important week in the history of mankind- the last 3.5 years of the prophecy AND it is all about Jesus. 
 

Best wishes, Charlie 
 

 

Charlie, you are ignoring Ezekiel 39 and Jesus's Second Coming in it.    It does not require a chart.   Only that you read the text and the text of Matthew 24:30b.   

What Ezekiel 39 does is disproves so many of your beliefs and interpretations in Daniel and Daniel 9 in particular.

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years verses 9-10, then Armageddon verses 17-20, then Jesus's Second Coming verses 21-29.

Edited February 8 by douggg

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

Charlie, you are ignoring Ezekiel 39 and Jesus's Second Coming in it.    It does not require a chart.   Only that you read the text and the text of Matthew 24:30b.   

What Ezekiel 39 does is disproves so many of your beliefs and interpretations in Daniel and Daniel 9 in particular.

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years verses 9-10, then Armageddon verses 17-20, then Jesus's Second Coming verses 21-29.

You, once again, have not given any consideration to the comments I made to your last response. The book of Daniel is about the first coming of our Lord and Savior. It was written to and for the Jews when they return to Jerusalem and everything is once again restored. The Messiah is the most important subject in the Scriptures and certainly in Daniel. 
 
You are entitled to your own opinions. Best wishes, Charlie