Does Heaven Actually Exist?

[FJK]

7 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Repeat that it was in existence before the Creation of the world.

How did you derive that?

(Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what led you there.)

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, FJK said:

How did you derive that?

(Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what led you there.)

When Jesus was ascended into Heaven as it was happening and as they were still looking at him the Heavenly realm came over him and swallowed him and they could not see him because they could not see in the Heavenly realm or it was not given to them to look into the Heavenly realm. 

To Stephen at the time before his death it was given to look into the Heavenly realm and he said to them what he was seeing about Jesus Christ that God had honored him and gave him the Throne and made him Lord. Amen. 

There are numerous scriptures that point to that. There is a lot in the bible. 

In Genesis we have the creation of the physical world and the creation of man. 

We do not have the creation of the Heavenly beings the Angels which are not physical beings and if they were we would have needed the earth to be created first. The Angels are not subject to the forces and the elements of the earth. They do need oxygen to sustain the life in them.  

And we have John 1:1,2 which is telling us that God sent the Word who was also God and was towards God to create everything that would be created which included the Angelic host the Heavenly Angelic Host before the worlds were created.

We have the scriptures that tell us that the Angels are subjected to him that he is above the Angels because he was the one who created the Angels in his former existence before he was born in Bethlehem after living everything behind looking forwards to the new glory God had prepared for him before the foundation of the world for him to be the Lamb of God to be slain to have this Glory which could not have in his former existence because he had to wait for the time to be (found) in human form by the Miracle as it was foretold and it happened in Luke 2. 

It is a realm that the created realm is not in its way. We have the Angel who stands on the fire and was not burn. No physical force can destroy them.  

And we have the numerous testimonies from the Lord God Almighty when he said that Heavens is my home and Earth is my foot stool. 

And we have the book of Revelation. Amen.

PS 

I remember when I was younger when Russia sent the first astronauts in space and they said that they did not see any Angels or God in Heaven the Space which they call Heaven and we call that also we. But along the way I understood that they did not ender in the Heavenly realm that they only were in the Created realm. The Angels could have shown them selves to them if that was the will of God. Because the Angels can enter our realm but we cannot enter their realm ourselves as we are this is why John said I found my self in the Heavenly realm and I do not know if I was in the flesh or in the Spirit. 

Edited February 14 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt and @FJK.

Gentlemen, the answer to this dilemma, imo, is that we have the notion propagated that our lives must be continuous between our birth and eternity. Most cannot accept that there may be a DISCONTINUITY in our lives between one's death and one's resurrection. As a social norm, we cannot entertain the concept that "death is TEMPORARILY the end!" Most have this tenacious belief that "we MUST continue to exist," and therefore, "we must GO SOMEWHERE when we die." And most, even unbelievers, say that this "somewhere" is "Heaven."

I submit that this is NOT what we learn from the Holy Scriptures as written. Instead, this concept has come down to us, NOT from the Scriptures, but rather from Greek philosophy derived from Greek mythology! This Greek mythology was introduced into Christian theology in the late 100s to the mid 300s A.D. and has been propagated in Christian theology ever since. This grew even in the 14th to the 16th Centuries when Christian theology was being solidified into a belief system and the Bible was being translated into the English language, that most did not have the support from the "Church" to question!

SomeWHEN along the lines, certain terms were redefined to mean something different. "Heaven" no longer meant "the sky," and "soul" no longer meant "an air-breathing creature."

Now, "Heaven" is defined as "God's abode" which exists either in another dimension of reality-a "spiritual realm"-or is outside the boundaries of the known Universe-a "third SPATIAL heaven!" Now, a "soul" is the "immaterial part of a human being" that exists on another plane than does the "physical body" which we temporarily wear as one wears a suit!

Other terms have undergone such a transformation, as well. I started to talk about this back in the topic about a "Paradigm Shift in Christian Thinking Over 2000 Years" (or even earlier?)

But, contrary to popular opinion, the Scriptures do NOT support us "going to Heaven when we die!" Instead, we are to be anticipating the RESURRECTION! And, according to the Apostle (Missionary) Paul, this will not just be a RESURRECTION but also a TRANSFORMATION of us! And, if one studies out the contrasts in the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, one will see that the word "spiritual" attached to the word "body" does NOT mean an "airy body" or an "ethereal body," but a STRONGER physical body! And, one should understand that we don't "HAVE" a body; we ARE a body! Currently, as long as we live, each one of us is an "air-breathing creature" - a "SOUL," just as Adam was and our Lord Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") was and is!

 

Shalom, Retrobyter. 

I read carefully your post and I disagree with the core of your message and my disagreement is a follow.

I believe that God made man a physical mortal being with an imortal Spirit. And this is demonstrated at the time of his creation and at the time of his disobedience in the Garden where we are informed from God that the earth was waiting to get his physical body at the time of his physical death and the Serpent will get and keep his Spirit and God will be waiting for the "seed of the woman" the Messiah the Christ of God the promise Lamb of God to died on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins.  

From before the foundation of the world the Heavenly Father had proposed to himself that he will only have children sanctified and justified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God who is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ redeemed us or he paid the price to redeem us from the one who was harvesting our Spirit and kept our Spirits at the time of our death. He did not take our dead bodies because he was interested to take and keep our Spirits. He did not care to take our bodies because they were dead and subject to decay. He can never take anyone while they lived because that it was impossible as the place where he took and kept the Spirits of the people was in the underworld. And the physical man while he lives cannot go through the earth and descend to the place where the dead were kept. 

The plan of God was to buy us back from the Devil, to redeem us from the Devil. The fact that we say to redeem us from the Devil that established that the Devil had the right to take us at the time of our death. This is all before the Cross, the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The people of the Nations of the world belong to the Devil while they yet lived but the Devil cannot take them as they are in their bodies he have to wait for them till the time when their physical body dies and then he can take their Spirits and God never contested that ordinance of things. Before the death of Jesus Christ the Israelites the people of God were a Nation seperated from the people of the world and at the time of their death they still belong to God as they belong to God while they lived and all the time they continued to belong to Him because he was their God all the time while they lived and after their physical death. They were gathered to Abraham their first Patriarh together with Issac and Jacob and the twelve Patriarhs of the Nation of Israel. At the time of their death the Devil never contested Abraham for their Spirits because God had given them to him to be with him and keep them till the time of Jesus Christ who after his death he descended to them before he went to the children of the rest of the world preaching the good knows of the Gospel to them the day of God's Jubilee who set the captives free to all who believe that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins right there as they were in their Spirits without their bodies because Jesus Christ redeemed them as they were He redeemed their Spirits he payed the price with his blood at the time of his death on the Cross. To all those who believed in him. That's what all the disciples preached by the anoynting of the Holy Spirit. 

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The writer wanting to talk about himself and what he believes about himself after his death he said: that the dead have no hope of mixing with the living again and the affair of the living. That was in contrast of the beliefs of the Nations around the Nation of Israel. In this matter he talked about what was written in the book of Leviticus. God cut off the Israelites from worshiping the Angels and keeping a hope in their ancestors that they keep an eye on them and be their protectors after their death. He cut them off the worship of Angels and their hope in their ansestors that their ancestors are with them helping them in this life by giving them their own religious Calendar. And day in and day out it included only the worship of their Lord God.  

Shalom, @Your closest friendnt.

Actually, this is NOT what King David taught in the songs he wrote, and I'm sure that Shlomoh ("Solomon") sang these songs himself as he was growing up in King David's household. 

Psalm 32:1-11 (KJV)

1 [[[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.]]

Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered. 2 Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile. 3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. 4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. 7 Thou [art] my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.

8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. 9 Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee. 10 Many sorrows [shall be] to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about. 11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all [ye that are] upright in heart.

He was also taught the Torah - the Pentateuch - Genesis through Deuteronomy, and Shlomoh had to write a copy of it for himself and read it every day! (It is part of the Law for kings!)

The Resurrection is taught within the Torah! 

Consider the show of faith that Avraham had:

Genesis 22:1-18 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt (test) Abraham, and said unto him,

"Abraham":

and he said,

"Behold, [here] I [am]."

2 And he said,

"Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. 4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. 5 And Abraham said unto his young men,

"Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you."

6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid [it] upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said,

"My father":

and he said,

"Here [am] I, my son."

And he said,

"Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is] the lamb for a burnt offering?"

8 And Abraham said,

"My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering":

so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said,

"Abraham, Abraham":

and he said,

"Here [am] I."

12 And he said,

"Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me."

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place "Jehovah-jireh": as it is said [to] this day, "In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said,

"By myself have I sworn," saith the LORD, "for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."

Avraham had CONFIDENCE in YHWH his God! He told the young men (his servants), that HE AND HIS SON would "come again" to them! I also believe that he would have followed through in the sacrifice of Yitschaq ("Isaac"), confident that YHWH would have raised him to life again!

Shlomoh KNEW this account, as well!

Furthermore, we have the Song of Mosheh ("Moses"), which contains significant phrases:

Deuteronomy 32:36-40 (KJV)

36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself (change His mind) for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left. 37 And he shall say,

"Where [are] their gods, [their] rock in whom they trusted, 38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, [and] drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, [and] be your protection!

39 "See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I MAKE ALIVE; I wound, and I HEAL: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven (to the skies), and say, I LIVE FOR EVER."

So, Shlomoh KNEW about the Resurrection power of God! The One who could create our ancestors Adam, can CERTAINLY RE-create them and US, complete with memories and personalities! He just also knew that "the dead don''t know anything" while they remain dead! HOWEVER, that is NOT the end of them! It's NOT "annihilationism" or "soul-sleep," per se; God SHALL re-create them in the Resurrection! The Law was written as INSTRUCTION ("TORAH") for how a person should live BEFORE they die!

[Starise]

14 hours ago, FJK said:

How did you derive that?

(Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what led you there.)

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We also have Paul talking about leaving his "tent" physical body and being with the Lord. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

The Thief on the cross would be with the Lord THAT DAY in paradise.

The book of Ecclesiastes is unique in that it was written in an almost humanist way. It is written mainly from the vantage point of what happens to a man aside from the Lord, the way we would see it without Christ. From the vantage point of a natural man, life is pointless as Richard Dawkins says or said. 

Thats why these things need to have context. I am not in agreement with the idea our bodies and souls lay in the ground 'dead'. I don't believe the bible in totality supports the idea. Scriptures that seem to make that conclusion are based on the naturalistic view of what happens to the body and they don't give credence to the soul. Depending on the verse and context there can be great confusion over this. 

The Lord can destroy both the body AND soul in hell. That context would seem to point to death of a soul. Anything apart from God is spiritual death and there is such a thing as eternal death. Annihilationists need to explain away hell and the eternal nature of it which really isn't possible in full context. The death described is eternal death. 

[Your closest friendnt]

@FJK, this is from the Apostle Peter and an anthology from deferent Bible versions. I thought to bring it to your attention. This is similar to what happened to Jesus when he died as he had said earlier he went to the heart of the earth for three days while his body was here on earth. 

at 2 Peter 1:13-14 

13 Yes, I think it fit, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up, by putting you in remembrance; 

14 knowing, that the putting off of this, my tabernacle, is soon to happen, even as our Lord Jesus Christ has showed me

New International Version
13. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,

14. because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

English Standard Version
13. I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder,

14. since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.

Berean Study Bible
13. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body,

14. because I know that this tent will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

New American Standard Bible
13. I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder,

 14. knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

New Living Translation
14. For our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that I must soon leave this earthly life,

English Standard Version
14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.

NASB 1995
14. knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Amplified Bible
14. knowing that the laying aside of this earthly tent of mine is imminent, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Shalom, Retrobyter. 

I read carefully your post, and I disagree with the core of your message, and my disagreement is as follows.

I believe that God made man a physical mortal being with an immortal Spirit. And this is demonstrated at the time of his creation and at the time of his disobedience in the Garden where we are informed from God that the earth was waiting to get his physical body at the time of his physical death and the Serpent will get and keep his Spirit and God will be waiting for the "seed of the woman" the Messiah the Christ of God the promise Lamb of God to die on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

Begging your pardon, but you don't get all that from the account of Adam's creation.

Look at it here:

Genesis 1:20-31; 2:1-3 (KJV)

20 And God said,

"Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

21 And God created great whales (Hebrew: אֶת־הַתַּנִּינִם הַגְּדֹלִים = "'et-hattaniynim haggdoliym" = "[d.o.->]-the-monstrous-creatures the-huge-ones"), and every living creature that moveth (Hebrew: וְאֵת כָּל־נֶפֶשׁ הַחַיָּה הָרֹמֶשֶׂת = "v'eet-nefesh hachayyaah haarmeset" = "and-[d.o.->] every-breathing-creature the-living-one that-moves", which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. 22 And God blessed them, saying,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

23 And the evening and the morning were THE FIFTH DAY.

24 And God said,

"Let the earth bring forth the living creature (Hebrew: נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה = "" = "") after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind":

and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. 26 And God said,

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

29 And God said,

"Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat":

and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were THE SIXTH DAY.

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Now, I brought in the fifth day, as well as the sixth day, to show verses 21 and 24: The words translated as "creature" is the word  נֶפֶשׁ or "nefesh," the word that is translated as "soul" in 2:7. Thus, the animals are "souls," too.

Further down, we read the details of how God made the man:

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living soul.

The Hebrew reads,

2:7   וַיִּיצֶר יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים אֶת־הָאָדָם עָפָר מִן־הָאֲדָמָה וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים וַיְהִי הָאָדָם לְנֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה׃

This transliterates to ...

2:7 Vayyitser YHWH 'Elohiym 'et-haa'aadaam `aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayyipach b'apaayow nishmat chayyiym vayhiy haa'aadaam lnefesh chayyaah:

And, this translates word-for-word into English as ...

2:7 And-formed YHWH God [d.o.->]-the-red-[man] of-dust from-the-red-[ground] and-puffed into-his-nostrils a-puff of-living-things and-became the-red-[man] into-a-breathing-creature living:

The word for "spirit," רוּחַ or "ruwach," is not found in this verse! Nor is it found in 1:24-31!

The "puff" (Hebrew: נִשְׁמַת or "nishmat") is just a short blast of air!

This verse is PURELY showing the inflation of the man's newly formed lungs to start the breathing process! That's it! It's from THIS verse that our medical personnel learned to do the same in rescue breathing as part of CPR! The man became a "living air-breathing creature!" Adam WAS his body! He didn't "HAVE" a body!

Now, we further read the details of Day 6:

Genesis 2:4-25 (KJV)

4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. 11 The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold; 12 And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river [is] Gihon: the same [is] it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. 14 And the name of the third river [is] Hiddekel: that [is] it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river [is] Euphrates.

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,

"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

18 And the LORD God said, 

"[It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet (suitable) for him."

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said,

"This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

So, from Adam's DNA found within his rib bone, God made the woman, only using the X chromosomes from his XY chromosomes. Again, we're not told of any infusing of some "spirit" within the woman.

Then comes the Fall:

Genesis 3:1-24 (KJV)

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman,

"Yea, hath God said, 'Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"

2 And the woman said unto the serpent,

"We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.'"

4 And the serpent said unto the woman,

"Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him,

"Where [art] thou?"

10 And he said,

"I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself."

11 And he said,

"Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"

12 And the man said,

"The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

13 And the LORD God said unto the woman,

"What [is] this [that] thou hast done?"

And the woman said,

"The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent,

"Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

16 Unto the woman he said,

"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

17 And unto Adam he said,

"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it' : cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return."

20 And Adam called his wife's name "Eve"; because she was the mother of all living.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said,

"Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever...":

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (Hebrew: הַכְּרֻבִים = "hakruViym" = the four-faced creatures that Ezekiel described in Ezekiel 1 and 10, who could see in all directions), and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

22 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

From before the foundation of the world the Heavenly Father had proposed to himself that he will only have children sanctified and justified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God who is Jesus Christ.

Wrong. Instead, we read this:

 

22 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Jesus Christ redeemed us or he paid the price to redeem us from the one who was harvesting our Spirit and kept our Spirits at the time of our death. He did not take our dead bodies because he was interested to take and keep our Spirits. He did not care to take our bodies because they were dead and subject to decay. He can never take anyone while they lived because that it was impossible as the place where he took and kept the Spirits of the people was in the underworld. And the physical man while he lives cannot go through the earth and descend to the place where the dead were kept. 

The plan of God was to buy us back from the Devil, to redeem us from the Devil. The fact that we say to redeem us from the Devil that established that the Devil had the right to take us at the time of our death. This is all before the Cross, the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The people of the Nations of the world belong to the Devil while they yet lived but the Devil cannot take them as they are in their bodies he have to wait for them till the time when their physical body dies and then he can take their Spirits and God never contested that ordinance of things. Before the death of Jesus Christ the Israelites the people of God were a Nation seperated from the people of the world and at the time of their death they still belong to God as they belong to God while they lived and all the time they continued to belong to Him because he was their God all the time while they lived and after their physical death. They were gathered to Abraham their first Patriarch together with Issac and Jacob and the twelve Patriarchs of the Nation of Israel. At the time of their death the Devil never contested Abraham for their Spirits because God had given them to him to be with him and keep them till the time of Jesus Christ who after his death he descended to them before he went to the children of the rest of the world preaching the good knows of the Gospel to them the day of God's Jubilee who set the captives free to all who believe that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins right there as they were in their Spirits without their bodies because Jesus Christ redeemed them as they were He redeemed their Spirits he payed the price with his blood at the time of his death on the Cross. To all those who believed in him. That's what all the disciples preached by the anoynting of the Holy Spirit. 

This may seem "logical" to you, but one should know that this is PURE FICTION!

First of all, we're not told that haSatan HAS the rights to the "underworld!" To the contrary, he is afraid of his own fate! He KNOWS the Scripture as well as anyone does, and he KNOWS his fate, according to Revelation 20! He knows that he is DOOMED to the Lake of Fire and Sulfur! He is ANGRY about that and VENGEFUL, working to take as many people to the Lake of Fire with him as he can!

Second, all the word "spirit" means is a "WIND!" By resemblance, it can mean a person's "BREATH!" That's what the word MEANS!!! It is NOT "the immaterial part" of a human being any more than "soul" is! It is an impersonal, blast of air and the energy behind it. That's it! That's all!

HaSatan is NOT all that! He is a SERVANT of God still, even if he rebelled! On the other hand, we don't really know that much about him. People attribute the prophecies against the king of Tyre and the king of Babylon to him, but these prophecies were NOT addressed to him!

He is not a "collector of spirits"; that, like other titles ascribed to him, attempts to give him an authority he doesn't have! God is NOT "buying back our spirits" from the likes of him! He buys them back FROM DEATH!

Psalm 49:1-20 (KJV)

1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah.]]

Hear this, all [ye] people; give ear, all [ye] inhabitants of the world: 2 Both low and high, rich and poor, together. 3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart [shall be] of understanding. 4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.

5 Wherefore should I fear in the days of evil, [when] the iniquity of my heels shall compass me about? 6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: 8 (For the redemption of their soul [is] precious, and it ceaseth for ever:) 9 That he should still live for ever, [and] not see corruption. 10 For he seeth [that] wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others. 11 Their inward thought [is, that] their houses [shall continue] for ever, [and] their dwelling places to all generations; they call [their] lands after their own names. 12 Nevertheless man [being] in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts [that] perish. 13 This their way [is] their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.

14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

16 Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased; 17 For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him. 18 Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and [men] will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself. 19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light. 20 Man [that is] in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts [that] perish.

Also, "forever" doesn't always mean "forever" as we use the term. Often, the Greek or the Hebrew is actually saying "into the age!" What "age?" The "age" of the Messiah's reign, or the "age" of eternity, since the Messiah's reign doesn't last a thousand years, but will last FOREVER!

[angels4u]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:30 PM, other one said:

I got the best view of heaven  studying M-string physics. Takes a lot of the mystery from it for me.

Do you have a link about that study? ( I never heard of it..

[Your closest friendnt]

@FJK, this is from the Apostle Peter and an anthology from deferent Bible versions. I thought to bring it to your attention. This is similar to what happened to Jesus when he died on the Cross. As he had said earlier he will give the sign of Jonas that at his death he will descend to the heart of the earth for three days and on the third day he will raised from the dead. while his body was layed in the tomb. 

              *John 17:24  “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

at 2 Peter 1:13-14 

13 Yes, I think it fit, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up, by putting you in remembrance; 

14 knowing, that the putting off of this, my tabernacle, is soon to happen, even as our Lord Jesus Christ has showed me

New International Version
13. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,

14. because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

English Standard Version
13. I think it right, to stir you up by way of reminder,

14. since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.

Berean Study Bible
13. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body,

14. because I know that this tent will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

New American Standard Bible
13. I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder,

 14. knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

New Living Translation
14. For our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that I must soon leave this earthly life,

English Standard Version
14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.

NASB 1995
14. knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Amplified Bible
14. knowing that the laying aside of this earthly tent of mine is imminent, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

Edited February 16 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

Shalom, @Retrobyter. 

I would appreciate if you are not carried away and post words like this is "PURE FICTION" when I have copy and paste something from the Bible. I did not like it at all. God bless. 

Edited February 16 by Your closest friendnt