Does Heaven Actually Exist?

[angels4u]

Does Heaven Actually Exist?

 

7–9 minutes

---

The Bible teaches that death is not the cessation of our existence Everyone has been made to exist eternally. Those who follow God's provision will spend eternity in His presence. This will be their final state. The hope of the believer is to be with God in a place called heaven.

Sky Overhead

The primary meaning of the word translated "heaven" is the sky overhead. This is the meaning of the Hebrew shamaim. It from shami "the high." The word came to mean not only the vast space overhead, but the unseen mysterious world where the Creator resides. The Greek word ouranos has the same idea. Sometimes ouranos is used in the singular but there does not seem to be any real difference between the singular and plural.

 

 

Used In A Number Of Ways

The word translated "heaven" in the Bible is used in a number of ways.

1. The Universe The word heaven is used with the word earth to mean the universe. The first verse of the Bible reads.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

Thus, in the beginning, God created the universe. Since the Hebrews did not have a specific word for universe, when they wanted to express this concept they said, "heaven and earth."

2. Synonymous For God Heaven is sometimes used as a synonym for God. Before Jesus fed the five thousand, the Bible says.

He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke them (Luke 9:16).

In this case, looking up to heaven is the same as saying looking to God. The wayward son said.

I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and before you' (Luke 15:18).

Sinning against heaven means to sin against God.

3. Actual Place And A State

The term heaven is also used in Scripture of an actual place. It is more than just a state a mind. Jesus spoke of the rooms that He has prepared.

In My Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you (John 14:2).

Jesus ascended to an actual place.

After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11).

A State

Although heaven is an actual place, it also refers to being in the presence of God.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with humanity, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God (Revelation 21:3).

What Is Heaven Like?

The Bible, in both testaments, gives us an idea of what heaven is all about.

Old Testament In the Old Testament, we are told the following about heaven.

Seat Of God's Throne Heaven is the seat of God's throne.

The LORD has established His throne in heaven, and His kingdom rules over all (Psalm 103:19).

Where God Rules

God rules in both heaven and earth.

As soon as we heard it, our hearts melted, and there was no courage left in any of us because of you. The LORD your God is indeed God in heaven above and on earth below (Joshua 2:11).

Where God Speaks

It is from heaven that God speaks to His people.

Out of heaven He let you hear His voice that He might instruct you (Deuteronomy 4:36).

Surrounded By Spiritual Beings

In heaven God is surrounded by a host of spiritual beings.

I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left (1 Kings 22:19).

Where Sins On Earth Reach The sins and injustices on the earth reach into heaven.

But a prophet of the LORD was there, whose name was Oded; he went out to meet the army that came to Samaria, and said to them, "Because the LORD, the God of your ancestors, was angry with Judah, He gave them into your hand, but you have killed them in a rage that has reached up to heaven (2 Chronicles 28:9).

New Testament The New Testament adds to our knowledge of heaven. From it we learn the following.

Names Of Believers Written In Heaven

The names of believers are written in heaven. Jesus said.

Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven (Luke 10:20).

Treasure Of Believers Resides

Heaven is where the believers have their treasure. Jesus said.

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, whether neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal (Matthew 6:20).

To the rich young ruler, Jesus commanded.

One thing you lack; go your way, sell whatever you have and give it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven (Mark 10:21).

Direction Of Prayer Heaven is where we direct our prayers.

After Jesus had spoken these words, He looked up to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son so that the Son may glorify You" (John 17:1).

The Presence Of God
Heaven is where the presence of God resides in a unique way. John wrote of heaven.

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are its temple (Revelation 21:22).

Described In A Variety Of Ways

Heaven is described in a variety of ways in the Bible. It is the everlasting inheritance of the believers.

Those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).

Temple

Heaven is also symbolically referred to as a temple.

In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried to my God. He heard my voice from His temple, and my cry entered His ears (2 Samuel 22:7).

City And Country

Heaven is also compared to a country and a city.

But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; indeed, He has prepared a city for them (Hebrews 11:14-16).

In this heavenly country, the writer to the Hebrews says that God has prepared a city for His people.

God's Kingdom-More Than Heaven

Believers will spend eternity in God's presence but this is not limited to heaven. Not only will heaven be the home of believers, so will the new earth. God's kingdom involves everything there is, the heavens and the earth - the entire universe.

Summary

From the Bible we find our the following about heaven.

1. Heaven is a genuine place. It is also the state of being in God's presence.

2. In Scripture, it is often synonymous for God.

3. We find, in both testaments, a number of descriptions of heaven. From these descriptions, we discover that heaven is the place where God's presence resides, surrounded by a number of spiritual beings.

4.In heaven, God rules the universe and hears our prayers.

5.Heaven, is described as a better country, a place that those who have trusted the promises of God can look forward to spending eternity. God's kingdom involves more than heaven, it includes the entire universe.https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_147.cfm

[FJK]

Sometimes, I think, we have to try to see and understand the words that were used of old in terms of how the people of that day would understood them.

The same word(s) can have very different meanings in different times (i.e. "the net" would or could mean something very different today than it would in the time of Jesus, as would a phrase like "surfing the web" used today or used then (not that it actually as a phrase in use at the time)).

It's probably best to derive the meaning from the context in which it is being used.

How I think about it.

[other one]

I got the best view of heaven  studying M-string physics. Takes a lot of the mystery from it for me.

[D. Adrien]

Could be as simple as being in a sinless or sin free domain. Christ will eventually rule over a new heaven and a new earth, in a new city populated with His Saints and Holy Angels and Elders and whomever else He created.  Blessed is he who takes part in the first resurrection. 

[Starise]

I appreciate this @angels4u I see heaven as a location but transitional eventually being here in a new heaven and a new earth. 

The term in the west seems to generally mean a place the dead go to if saved. Since the Lord is in heaven and since we go to be with Him immediately at death minus our bodies until the resurrection, that idea is accurate although it only skims the surface of the place and the eventual transition.

Thoughts?

[Know Jah]

Angels4U  I fail to see where the bible refers to heaven as God. Think it refers to heaven as the atmosphere above

 

[Retrobyter]

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Does Heaven Actually Exist?

 

7–9 minutes

---

The Bible teaches that death is not the cessation of our existence Everyone has been made to exist eternally. Those who follow God's provision will spend eternity in His presence. This will be their final state. The hope of the believer is to be with God in a place called heaven.

Shalom, angels4u.

I see the Scriptures saying something somewhat different. The Bible does NOT teach that "death is not the cessation of our existence." Rather, there are SIGNIFICANT REFERENCES to the contrary!

Yeeshuwa`s simple interchange with the Sadducees is a prime example! Consider:

Matthew 22:23-33 (KJV)

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying,

"Master, Moses said, 'If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her."

29 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living!"

33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine.

Yeeshuwa` said that His Father, YHWH God, said, "I am the God of Avraham, and the God of Yitschaq, and the God of Ya`aqoV." And, these three men and their wives were already dead and in their tomb in the cave of Machpeelaah near Hevrown ("Hebron"). They could VISIT the tomb and see that they were still there! Yeeshuwa` also prefaced this with "as touching the RESURRECTION of the dead... !" So, He wasn't saying that they were alive in "Heaven"; He was saying that they would be ALIVE AGAIN in the FUTURE RESURRECTION! In fact, that was His WHOLE POINT to the reference!

See, the Scriptures actually reveal that death is a TEMPORARY cessation of existence, and that the Resurrection is what will bring eternal life. While it is true that "those who follow God's provision will spend eternity in His presence," that will be WITHIN the final state, and it will be a final state for all who belong to Him!

And, no. The "blessed hope" of the believer is to be in the RESURRECTION! The Resurrection of those who have died long ago and who have decayed away involves CREATION! Through the coming Resurrection associated with the Second Coming of the Messiah, we will be brought back to life to live with God in a place called "the NEW earth!" We don't go to Him; HE comes to live with US! THAT is our destiny! The name Emmanuel, for instance, means "God with US!" and in Revelation 21:1-3, John said,

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou = out of-the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God."

 

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Sky Overhead

The primary meaning of the word translated "heaven" is the sky overhead. This is the meaning of the Hebrew shamaim. It from shami "the high." The word came to mean not only the vast space overhead, but the unseen mysterious world where the Creator resides. The Greek word ouranos has the same idea. Sometimes ouranos is used in the singular but there does not seem to be any real difference between the singular and plural.

Right! This is not only the primary meaning, but it is also the COMMON meaning of the word, making it practically the SOLE meaning of the word! One should read a passage with THIS definition in mind before trying to put the "unseen mysterious world" into the text!

Regarding the plural, one might also consider that this was a person who knew Hebrew and Greek, and the Hebrew word "shaamayim" IS plural (dual). So, in translation into Greek, it would only be normal to expect the usage of the plural "ouranoi" instead of the singular "ouranos," although the Hebrew word is only dual, as in a "pair" of shoes, for instance. So, it should come as no surprise that when one is talking about the "sky" in general, the word "ouranos" (singular) will be used; however, if one is talking about both the day sky and the night sky, the word "ouranoi" (plural) will be used, instead. And, yes, that means they could be used interchangeably.

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Used In A Number Of Ways

The word translated "heaven" in the Bible is used in a number of ways.

1. The Universe The word heaven is used with the word earth to mean the universe. The first verse of the Bible reads.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1).

Thus, in the beginning, God created the universe. Since the Hebrews did not have a specific word for universe, when they wanted to express this concept they said, "heaven and earth."

One must study Genesis 1 to really understand this verse: First, the common Hebraic, linguistic device is to begin a discourse with a SUMMARY of what is to follow. Genesis 1:1-2 is such a device. The proof is in the usage of the words "shaamayim" ("heaven" or "heavens") and "'erets" ("earth"), which are not so named until verses 8 and 10!

Genesis 1:1-13 (KJV)

1 In the beginning God created THE HEAVEN (Hebrew: הַשָּׁמַיִם transliterated as "hashshaamayim" meaning "the-skies," with the definite article prefix "ha-," doubling the next consonant) and THE EARTH (Hebrew: הָאָרֶץ transliterated as "haa'aarets" meaning "the-earth," with the definite article prefix "haa-," making the vowel sounds long). 2 And the earth (Hebrew: וְהָאָרֶץ transliterated as "vhaashshaamayim," meaning "and-the-earth," beginning with the vav connective usually translated as "and" and the definite article "haa-") was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said,

"Let there be light":

and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were THE FIRST DAY.

6 And God said,

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven (Hebrew: שָׁמָיִם transliterated as "shaamaayim," without the definite article prefix)." And the evening and the morning were THE SECOND DAY. 

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry [land] "Earth (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ transliterated as "'erets," without the definite article prefix)"; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good. 11 And God said,

"Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth":

and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. 13 And the evening and the morning were THE THIRD DAY.

So, one can see from this text that God didn't NAME these "things" until Days 2 and 3, although the words were used in verses 1 and 2!

NO, this is not primarily about the "universe"; this is the creation of this planet's BIOSPHERE, the earth's SURFACE and it's ATMOSPHERE within which we live! Only upon the FOURTH day, could we be seeing the rest of the Universe, but it may be that God has generated a complicated, fractal pattern. In any case, the light was created in transit from the "sources" which were NOT the sources, but were made AFTER the light was generated! 

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

2. Synonymous For God Heaven is sometimes used as a synonym for God. Before Jesus fed the five thousand, the Bible says.

He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke them (Luke 9:16).

In this case, looking up to heaven is the same as saying looking to God.

OR, He simply could have been "looking-up into the sky,"  "ἀναβλέψας εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν," knowing His Father was all around Him!

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

The wayward son said.

I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and before you' (Luke 15:18).

Sinning against heaven means to sin against God.

No! This is a misleading translation of the words in Luke 15:18. The words translated as "sinned against heaven" are ἥμαρτον εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν, transliterated as "heemarton eis ton ouranon." It translates to "I-have-sinned into the sky!" He's talking about the EXTENT of his sin! 

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

3. Actual Place And A State

The term heaven is also used in Scripture of an actual place. It is more than just a state a mind.

This is true, but it is MUCH MORE MUNDANE than most believe! The "actual place" is the SKY, particularly the ATMOSPHERE of this planet!

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Jesus spoke of the rooms that He has prepared.

In My Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you (John 14:2).

Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") was talking about the NEW JERUSALEM! THAT is His Father's "house" or "skeenee," a Bedouin TENT!! The problem with John 14 is that Yeeshuwa` NEVER says that He is coming back "TO TAKE US THERE!" Look at the passage closely:

John 14:1-4 (KJV)

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."

Can you see it? There's no suggestion of taking us TO the "Father's house"; To the contrary, He says that He will "COME AGAIN," and "RECEIVE them unto Himself." However, having RETURNED, He is RECEIVING them HERE! His reason was "that where I AM, there YE MAY BE also!"

Yochanan ("John") also talks about this "house" as a "Bedouin TENT":

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN (Greek: καταβαίνουσαν ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = "katabainousan apo tou Theou ek tou ouranou" = "descending away from-the God out of-the sky"), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (Greek: ἤκουσα φωνῆς μεγάλης ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = "eekousa foonees megalees ek tou ouranou" = "I-heard a-voice loud out of-the sky") saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men (Greek: Ἰδού, ἡ σκηνὴτοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων = "Idou, hee skeeneetou Theou meta toon anthroopoon" = "Look! The tent of-God [is] with the men/human-beings/mankind!"), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God! 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away!"

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Jesus ascended to an actual place.

After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven" (Acts 1:9-11).

Yes, He did "ascend to an actual place," but that "place" is "into THE SKY!" It's the SAME GREEK WORD that was here translated as both "sky" and "heaven!" Why would the author/translator mean TWO DIFFERENT THINGS?! Think about it!

I'm going to stop here and get this posted. Hopefully, I'll get to the rest in my next post.

[Retrobyter]

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Does Heaven Actually Exist?

(Acts 1:9-11)

A State

Shalom, angels4u.

Before moving on, let's look at Acts 1:9-11 in the Greek:

1:9   καὶ ταῦτα εἰπὼν βλεπόντων αὐτῶν ἐπήρθη καὶ νεφέλη ὑπέλαβεν αὐτὸν ἀπὸ τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν αὐτῶν.
1:10   καὶ ὡς ἀτενίζοντες ἦσαν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν πορευομένου αὐτοῦ καὶ ἰδού,ἄνδρες δύο παρειστήκεισαν αὐτοῖς ἐν ἐσθήτι λευκῇ,
1:11   οἳ καὶ εἶπον, 

Ἄνδρες Γαλιλαῖοι τί ἑστήκατε ἐμβλέποντες εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν; οὗτος ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὁ ἀναληφθεὶς ἀφ᾽ ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν οὕτως ἐλεύσεται ὃν τρόπον ἐθεάσασθε αὐτὸν πορευόμενον εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν.

Transliterated, this becomes:

1:9 Kai tauta eipoon blepontoon autoon epeerthee kai nefelee hupelaben auton apo toon ofthalmoon autoon.
1:10 Kai hoos atenizontes heesan eis ton ouranon poreuomenou autou kai idou, andres duo pareisteekeisan autois en estheeti leukee,
1:11 Hoi kai eipon,

"Andres Galilaioi ti esteekate emblepontes eis ton ouranon; houtos ho Ieesous ho analeeftheis af' humoon eis ton ouranon houtoos eleusetai hon tropon etheasasthe auton poreuomenon eis ton ouranon."

Translated into English word-for-word, we get ...

1:9 And these-things having-said, beholding they, He-was-taken-up and a-cloud hid him from the eyes of-them.
1:10 And while looking-intently they-were into the sky as-was-going He and - Look! - men two stood-by them in clothes white,
1:11 The-ones also said,

"Men of-[the]-Galiyl, why do-you-stand staring into the sky? this-same the-One Yeeshuwa`/Jesus the-One having-been-taken-up from you into the sky thus will-come in-that manner you-watched Him going into the sky."

All three instances of "eis ton ouranon" should be translated THE SAME WAY!

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

A State

heaven is an actual place, it also refers to being in the presence of God.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with humanity, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God (Revelation 21:3).

This is not exactly what the voice was saying. God is OMNIPRESENT! He is NOT localized to ANY particular "place." It's talking about God accepting humanity as His OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS! "Nothing between my soul and the Savior!"

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

What Is Heaven Like?

The Bible, in both testaments, gives us an idea of what heaven is all about.

Old Testament In the Old Testament, we are told the following about heaven.

Seat Of God's Throne Heaven is the seat of God's throne.

The LORD has established His throne in heaven, and His kingdom rules over all (Psalm 103:19).

Not according to haMelekh Shlomoh ("King Solomon")!

1 Kings 8:22-29 (KJV)

22 And Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven: 23 And he said,

"LORD God of Israel, [there is] no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart: 24 Who hast kept with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him: thou spakest also with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled [it] with thine hand, as [it is] this day.

25 "Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying,

"'There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.'

26 "And now, O God of Israel, let thy word, I pray thee, be verified, which thou spakest unto thy servant David my father.

27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, THE HEAVEN AND HEAVEN OF HEAVENS CANNOT CONTAIN THEE; HOW MUCH LESS THIS HOUSE THAT I HAVE BUILDED? 28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day: 29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, [even] toward the place of which thou hast said,

"'My name shall be there':

"that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place."

God could NOT be restricted to a Temple, even one as grand as that which Shlomoh built; but the New Jerusalem, even being much greater in size, is still just a house built that lands upon the earth, and it, too, is not as large as הַשָּׁמַיִם וּשְׁמֵי הַשָּׁמַיִם,  "HASHSHAAMAYIM UWSHMEEY HASHSHAAMAYIM," "THE-SKIES AND SKY OF-THE-SKIES!" ("THE-EXPANSE AND EXPANSE OF-THE-EXPANSE," since the expanse was named "skies")! "The Atmosphere and Outer Space beyond!" So, even the UNIVERSE cannot contain Him! So, Psalm 103:19, like Revelation 21:3, is NOT about the PLACE; it's about the FELLOWSHIP!

See, here's what Psalm 103:19 is saying:

103:19   יְהוָה בַּשָּׁמַיִם הֵכִין כִּסְאוֹ וּמַלְכוּתוֹ בַּכֹּלמָשָׁלָה׃

Which is transliterated as ...

103:19 YHWH bashshaamayim heekhiyn kicc'ow uwmalkhuwtow bakol maashaalaah:

Which, in turn, is translated word-for-word into English as ...

103:19 YHWH in-the-skies has-prepared His-covered-[seat] and-His-kingdom in-all has-dominion:

Rearranged for English word order, we get ...

103:19 YHWH has prepared His-covered-[seat] in-the-skies, and-His-kingdom has-dominion in-all:

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Where God Rules

God rules in both heaven and earth.

As soon as we heard it, our hearts melted, and there was no courage left in any of us because of you. The LORD your God is indeed God in heaven above and on earth below (Joshua 2:11).

Understand the context of what you are reading. First of all, this was said by RachaV ("Rahab"), the prostitute ("the harlot"), an inhabitant of Yeriychow ("Jericho"), a city of Cna`an ("Canaan"), the land of the original inhabitants of the Land of Israel, the 'Emoriy ("Amorites" or "Mountain-dwellers"), which Joshua was commanded by YHWH to destroy, since their iniquity was full. (See Genesis 15:16; Joshua 3:10.) She was a part of this 'Emoriy and was given to worshipping lesser gods, which are no gods. When she heard of YHWH the God of Israel, she asked to be a part of them! This is found within her agreement with the spies sent to spy out Yeriychow. This is what they knew of Him! He was "indeed God in heaven above and on earth below," the God of the mountains and the sky as well as the God of the valleys and the coastlands! Again, it is "אֱלֹהִים בַּשָּׁמַיִם מִמַּעַל וְעַל־הָאָרֶץ מִתָּחַת" = "God in-the-skies above and-upon the-earth below."

On 1/21/2024 at 2:59 PM, angels4u said:

Where God Speaks

It is from heaven that God speaks to His people.

Out of heaven He let you hear His voice that He might instruct you (Deuteronomy 4:36).

Yes, they LITERALLY heard His voice upon Mount Sinai, "out of the skies!" (See Exodus 19:9-20:22.) One cannot hear a voice in a vacuum! It must be heard vibrating through the air molecules!

Again, the rest will have to wait for a later post.

[FJK]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:25 AM, Starise said:

I appreciate this @angels4u I see heaven as a location but transitional eventually being here in a new heaven and a new earth. 

The term in the west seems to generally mean a place the dead go to if saved. Since the Lord is in heaven and since we go to be with Him immediately at death minus our bodies until the resurrection, that idea is accurate although it only skims the surface of the place and the eventual transition.

Thoughts?

One thought: The Bible tells us that the dead know nothing, that seems in conflict with going to be with him (Jesus) before the resurrection.

How do you reconcile that, and what would be the basis of that reconciliation.

FWIW, I'm of the belief that when we die here on earth there is nothing, no consciousness or experience  of passage of time.time, until we are resurrected.  We close our eyes here then open them at the resurrection, along with all the  others who've gone before us and all those that will come after us, with no knowledge of anything in between.

But I don't know what we will be like at that time, we are told we will be as the angels which would mean we are no longer men or women and we may not even recognize each other in relation to our former lives on earth since we will no longer be what we are now.

That's the only way I find that I can reconcile these things in my thinking.

[Starise]

Due to lack of time today I can't look it all up, but I think Gotquestions pretty much nails it.

https://www.gotquestions.org/dead-know-nothing.html