abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 14 3 hours ago, FJK said: I said things a little unclearly, when talking about God's intentions I was mot intending to refer to the eventual outcome, which id definitely well shown in the Bible, but to his immediate intentions regarding the events of today and how they fit into the scheme of things in the sense of our experience of time sequences. What is different now is that Jerusalem is restored and the times of the gentiles is ended. This event places one timeline anchor in 1967. This event and date gives us a position in prophecy that wasn't there before. One example is the 5th & 6th trumpets. In the 5th trumpet the false prophet locusts have no direction. This may imply that the locusts go which ever way the wind blows like real locusts do. In the 6th trumpet the horsemen have direction, they travel west from across the Euphrates toward? Jerusalem. This seems to show that Jerusalem is restored to Israel at that time. Which implies that Jerusalem is restored sometime between the 5th and 6th trumpet. With this information and the current war going on now between restored Jerusalem and Iran and it's allies seems to match the prophecy fulfillment. ---- Notice how after the 6th trumpet blows that it is told that certain prophecies will be revealed, Rev 10:7, and that the contense of the scroll are revealed, Rev 11.. It could mean that only after the 6th trumpet has blown that these Rev prophecies will be understood surrounding the resur/rap coming of Jesus for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet. 3 hours ago, FJK said: An example of the way confusion can arise by using current events as an absolute for the timing of God's plan is shown by the sequential and non-sequential interpretations of the 70 weeks of Daniel (9:24-27) which have been used many times in different ways. It just makes sense that all possible interpretations of Dan 9:24-27 should be explored. But there comes a time when we have to kind of make a decision about which way to go while still keeping an open mind. Open discussions help. Jesus came in His ministry at the end of the 69th week, the beginning of the 70th week of 7 years. He was cut off 3 1/2 years after beginning His ministry of the new covenant. Which makes more sense? That there is a 2000 year gap in the 7 years? or that the 7 year covenant weeks ended when Israel rejected the new covenant in 37 AD? It plainly says that Jesus was the one who confirmed the covenant, Gal 3:17. Why do some say that it was not Jesus who confirmed the covenant, when Galatians says it was? There is a reason and it was formed centuries ago. In the chapter's context the events of Dan 9 are shown to surround Jerusalem in the 30 AD-70 AD time period. Trying to make the Dan 9 events future involves recreating the events of 30-70 AD which cannot be recreated because Jesus already has appeared and was cut off. So they must insert a "gap" to make their theories possible, but there is no gap, otherwise the prophecy could not be true because it would be more then 70 weeks of years, if the gap time was added. 3 hours ago, FJK said: Always. I keep in mind things like hearing a preacher on the radio around 30years back (during the Clinton administration) that was absolutely certain that the final 7 years had begun and we would see all fulfilled by around 2000 or shortly after. As always he turned out wrong, you can look back throughout history and see many, many people predicting with what they felt was absolute certainty that we were on the immediate edge of all the prophecies being fulfilled and the return of Christ, this is true over the last 100's or thousand's of years as even during the first decades after the ascension of Christ people were thinking this, yet we have a several thousand history of all of them being wrong. Trying to predict any prophetic fulfillment as imminent based on current world political, social and cultural conditions is not the wisest of things to be doing since it always seems to mutate form "this could be it" to "this is it" and when it turn out wrong it damages or destroys the faith of many who believed in it. The way I see it. I would offer this observation from Matt 25, that the 5 virgins who lacked oil heard the call, had time to see that they lacked oil, had time to ask the others for oil, had some time to depart and search for oil, but ran out of time. This seems to indicate that there is a short time between the call and realization of arrival and the actual coming of Jesus for the kingdom. That is, souls will understand that He is coming, but not have enough time to get their spiritual lives in order. Possibly the time that we are now in. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 9 minutes ago, abcdef said: With this information and the current war going on now between restored Jerusalem and Iran and it's allies seems to match the prophecy fulfillment. But how long will this last as it is before then clock ticks forward again? 1 year? 1000 years? WE can't know these things as a certainty, only that the clock it ticking forward at whatever rate God chooses for it to tick. That's all I'm saying, we can know the season but we can't know exactly how long that season lasts is the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 15 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 15 10 hours ago, FJK said: But how long will this last as it is before then clock ticks forward again? 1 year? 1000 years? WE can't know these things as a certainty, only that the clock it ticking forward at whatever rate God chooses for it to tick. That's all I'm saying, we can know the season but we can't know exactly how long that season lasts is the way I see it. I agree with you about not knowing the years of future prophecy in the time of men. Can we see events in prophecy that have already past? What is the last event in prophecy that you can date? For example, what was the date for the fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple? In 70 AD that happened. What about the time after the destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem? The times of the gentile trampling Lk 21:24? It began in 70 AD and continued. Has it ended? When? 1967? What happens after Jerusalem is restored? After 1967? Can you find anything? We can certainly date past events if we can identify them. If we can identify events and dates then we have a chance to see what comes next and look for it's fulfillment. --- From what I see, the next event is the battle of Armageddon where Israel loses and Jerusalem falls. Understand that the War of Armageddon is going on right now and getting hotter. The battle of Armageddon is only the LAST battle that takes place before restored Jerusalem falls, Jesus comes, and this world ends. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted March 15 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15 7 hours ago, abcdef said: I agree with you about not knowing the years of future prophecy in the time of men. Can we see events in prophecy that have already past? What is the last event in prophecy that you can date? For example, what was the date for the fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple? In 70 AD that happened. What about the time after the destruction of 70 AD Jerusalem? The times of the gentile trampling Lk 21:24? It began in 70 AD and continued. Has it ended? When? 1967? What happens after Jerusalem is restored? After 1967? Can you find anything? We can certainly date past events if we can identify them. If we can identify events and dates then we have a chance to see what comes next and look for it's fulfillment. --- From what I see, the next event is the battle of Armageddon where Israel loses and Jerusalem falls. Understand that the War of Armageddon is going on right now and getting hotter. The battle of Armageddon is only the LAST battle that takes place before restored Jerusalem falls, Jesus comes, and this world ends. --- Even at this I end up questioning myself when I try to call events as fulfilling prophecies. Fir instance, I look at 1948 as being the fulfillment of the prophecy of the nation of Israel being reborn as a nation and called back to it land, but then I realize that a little over half of the Jews are still scattered throughout the world and have no intention of going back other than for a visit. Israel also occupies only a part of its historical land so there wouldn't be enough room for them now if the did. So what I see as a fulfillment when I look at the reborn Israel may be, in fact, just the beginning of a fulfillment and not a fulfillment in itself. It took WWII and the German inspired virulent antisemitism of the 1930's to convince the Jews who went back to Israel to do so, and to convince the world to recreate the nation of Israel for them to return to, so if something similar is required to get the rest of them to return maybe the current rising Judenhass we see throughout the world is setting the stage for the next stage of their return and the final fulfillment of that prophecy. I am always aware that seeing the fulfillment of a prophecy is subject to the Nostradamus effect where people make events fit into it so that they seem fulfilled by them when they are just interpreted that way because that is what the people doing it want to see to reaffirm their belief about it. There may be a bigger picture we aren't seeing yet and that will have to wait till more is brought to light to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted March 17 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted March 17 On 3/13/2024 at 9:05 PM, abcdef said: Entirely unhistorical claims? Did you even go and read what the Matthew Henry commentary said on the verses that you referenced? I thought that he had good support for his opinion. Matthew Henry wrote well over 300 years ago, and his understanding of Egyptian history is badly dated. Have you read Velikovsky's Ramses II and His Time? Suffice it to say, Egypt was not desolate for 40 years during the time Henry claims, nor was the river at all dried up, and no amount of allegorizing-away the End Time prophecies of Ezekiel and Isaiah about Egypt is justified. These things are yet to be fulfilled in actuality. Soon. On 3/13/2024 at 9:05 PM, abcdef said: To me, it seemed that you were saying that Jesus could not come for the kingdom until after Egypt had gone through the things you referenced, 40 years of a harsh ruler and the Nile drying up. Is that it? Jesus will come at His Parousia, the time of the resurrection of the dead and the rapture. Immediately after which, the period of the wrath of God [which begins at Rev. 6:17] will cover 40 years. But once Jesus' Presence enters back into the world, He will not leave being involved in it. All explained in a number of my blogs, the most detailed series here: 48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1 First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with the Seven Spirits. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/ 49. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 2 The Seven Seals. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/ 50.The End Times and the Exodus, Part 3 The Seven Trumpets. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2027-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-3/ 51. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 4 The Seven Bowls. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2069-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-4/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 24 On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: Even at this I end up questioning myself when I try to call events as fulfilling prophecies. Fir instance, I look at 1948 as being the fulfillment of the prophecy of the nation of Israel being reborn as a nation and called back to it land, but then I realize that a little over half of the Jews are still scattered throughout the world and have no intention of going back other than for a visit. Israel also occupies only a part of its historical land so there wouldn't be enough room for them now if the did. On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: So what I see as a fulfillment when I look at the reborn Israel may be, in fact, just the beginning of a fulfillment and not a fulfillment in itself. The scripture for the fulfillment of the times of the gentiles is made clear in Lk 21:24. It is specific to events surrounding the city of Jerusalem itself. When gentile control over Jerusalem has ended, then the times of the gentiles is over. The process began in 1948 and was completed in 1967 ish when forces of the Israel military took control of the city. History proves that the times of the gentiles (ToGs) lasted from after 70 AD until 1967, about 1900 years The idea that the ToGs lasts only 3 1/2 years is proven false. That teaching is a distortion of the time line by literalists. The numbers are proven symbolic by history. On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: It took WWII and the German inspired virulent antisemitism of the 1930's to convince the Jews who went back to Israel to do so, In 1929 the 5th trumpet was blown. The locusts are false teachers ( Rev 9:5 - Isa 9:15) who attack the flesh children of Israel to drive them back to restore Jerusalem. The abyss being opened and the beast nation returning is Rome being restored to sit on the seat of the beast, the city of Rome. This was the treaty of Lateran where the Vatican was established in the exact same spot that it occupied 2000 years ago, the seat of the beast. Now the 6th trumpet has blown releasing the forces across the Euphrates to attack restored Jerusalem. These are also false teachers Rev 9:19 - Isa 9:15. The false teaching is that Israel is not God's people. Just as Cain killed Abel, these souls are out to prove that the God of Israel is not God and to make their God greater. That is, if they eliminate God's people, then God will have to accept them as His people. Cain killed Abel. On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: and to convince the world to recreate the nation of Israel for them to return to, so if something similar is required to get the rest of them to return maybe the current rising Judenhass we see throughout the world is setting the stage for the next stage of their return and the final fulfillment of that prophecy. See how the world has turned against Israel. We are past the point of the return to restore Jerusalem and Israel, that has already happened. What happens after Jerusalem and Israel are restored? The kings of the east from across the Euphrates attack and conquer Jerusalem Rev 9& 16. On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: I am always aware that seeing the fulfillment of a prophecy is subject to the Nostradamus effect where people make events fit into it so that they seem fulfilled by them when they are just interpreted that way because that is what the people doing it want to see to reaffirm their belief about it. I agree. We believe the prophecies to be true. If they are true, then they will come to pass. If they come to pass, then God has meant them to be recognized sometime during or after the events, as He showed them to us as a teaching and for our edification. The central theme of the prophecies is the return of Jesus. So it seems that we should be able to recognize the fulfillment of those prophecies concerning His return. The restoration of Jerusalem is one anchor in the timeline, now past by 55 years. The idea is to place that event in it's proper place in the prophetic timeline. The events of the 5th trumpet and the 6th trumpet show that Jerusalem is restored between the 5th trumpet and the 6th trumpet. So that would mean that the 5th trumpet was blown in 1929 and the 6th trumpet was blown in 9-11-01. The event of 9/11 led to the destruction of Iraq and now allows the kings of the east from across the Euphrates to attack restored Jerusalem. As you say, sometimes events seem to fit the timeline, but end up failing. But I think that this time, with Jerusalem restored, that it looks like this is really the time before Jesus comes for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet. On 3/15/2024 at 6:22 AM, FJK said: There may be a bigger picture we aren't seeing yet and that will have to wait till more is brought to light to understand it. The truth is guaranteed to come out after the 6th trumpet sounds and as the 7th trumpet begins to sound Rev 10:7. The key to the prophecies is the restoration of Jerusalem. When looking at the Revelation, identifying the restoration of Jerusalem fixes the date anchor in the timeline. The restoration of Jerusalem is shown to be between the 5th and 6th trumpet. The return of the 2 witnesses after the time of the trampling is ended Rev 11:2. The return of the woman in Rev 12 to Jerusalem after her time in the wilderness is ended. The end of the symbolic 42 months in Rev 13:5. The treading of the wine press ends when Israel returns to the city Rev 14:20. Between the 5th and 6th vial/bowl. At the 5th vial darkness is applied to the seat of the beast Rome, when the beast returns to sit on the seat of the beast, 1929. Now the kings of the east are crossing the Euphrates to attack Jerusalem. Rev 20, The forces of Magog surround restored Jerusalem. All of these show a restored Jerusalem, that happened in 1967. They also show what happens after Jerusalem is restored. What happens after Jerusalem is restored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 24 On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: Matthew Henry wrote well over 300 years ago, and his understanding of Egyptian history is badly dated. Yes it is dated, but much of his data is confirmed by archaeology. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: Have you read Velikovsky's Ramses II and His Time? Suffice it to say, Egypt was not desolate for 40 years during the time Henry claims, I wasn't there, so I must rely on others opinions. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: nor was the river at all dried up, and no amount of allegorizing-away the End Time prophecies of Ezekiel and Isaiah about Egypt is justified. These things are yet to be fulfilled in actuality. Soon. There are passages where the people of regions are described as waters, proven allegories, proven that they are not literal, Isa 8:7, 17:3, for example. Ezek 29:1-5, Ezek 29:19 shows that the entire passage is about Nebuchadrezzar in Babylon. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: Jesus will come at His Parousia, the time of the resurrection of the dead and the rapture The resurrection- rapture (resur/rapt). There are only 2 resurrections, Jesus and then those at His coming (resur/rapt), 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24. Then comes the end. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: Immediately after which, the period of the wrath of God [which begins at Rev. 6:17] will cover 40 years. After Jesus comes for the kingdom at the resur/rapt, the last judgment happens and then eternity. Rev 11:15-19, 18. A theory that contends for a time of human habitation on this planet after the resur/rapt cannot be maintained. 1 Cor 15:23-28, shows that after the resur/rapt it is the end, when death is defeated. The scene of death being defeated puts the sequence of events parallel to Rev 20:11-15, 14. In Rev 20, the 2nd resurrection happens after Jerusalem is surrounded by gentile enemies. After the surrounding comes the fire from heaven. Then the last judgment. At the last judgment heaven and earth fly away, so after the fire from heaven, heaven and this material planet earth fly away, and are no longer mentioned. Since there are only 2 resurrections, and the second resurrection which is the resus/rapt is followed by the fire from heaven and then heaven and earth flying away, there will be no human souls left on planet earth to be saved or not saved. Because after the fire, every soul will be accounted for, saved or unsaved, to be at the last judgment. ----- The 6th seal shows Jesus coming at the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. It was Jesus coming as God, but it wasn't a resurrection coming. There is no resurrection shown at the 6th seal. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: But once Jesus' Presence enters back into the world, He will not leave being involved in it. Jesus is only coming for the kingdom, for those who are His at the resur/rapt, and then the fire from heaven and the last judgment. No one can see the face of God and live. It is impossible for Jesus to return, in His glory, and for men to see His face as God and live. And will the perfect God glorified allow material men of sin into His glory presence to defile Him? Will there be faith? We are saved by faith, but why would there be faith if Jesus is in Jerusalem? How will sinful people be saved by faith, if there if faith no longer? That is, once you have seen the face of God and return to sin, there is no return to God, no repentance. On 3/17/2024 at 2:28 PM, WilliamL said: All explained in a number of my blogs, the most detailed series here: 48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1 First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with the Seven Spirits. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/ 49. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 2 The Seven Seals. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/ 50.The End Times and the Exodus, Part 3 The Seven Trumpets. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2027-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-3/ 51. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 4 The Seven Bowls. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2069-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-4/ Even though there are some parallels in the languages used and the events shown, it seems like a hard thing to tie them all together into a future event of 40 years. The vials/bowls of Rev 15 & 16 surround the 4th beast nation of Dan 7 and the iron of the Dan 2 statue, which is Rome and it's people. Rev 16:2, 6, 10, 13. The plagues are because of the persecution of the children of Israel Rev 16:6. The persecution of Rome over Israel began in 63 BC and ended in 1967. The plagues are the wrath of God on the beast nation and it's people. The last bowl/vial is the end of planet earth at the fire from heaven. ---- 1st timeline, seals/trumpets, the wrath of God on unbelieving Israel, 37 AD- resur/rapt/7th trumpet. 2nd timeline, same as the trumpets, 37 AD through 7th trumpet. (The seals and trumpets share the timeline in parallel united by the beast that rises from the abyss and then kills the 2 witnesses.) 3rd time line, Rev 12, The faithful woman Israel flees after Jesus is caught up to heaven. 63 BC Rome invades, until Jerusalem is restored when the woman returns. Rev 16 timeline, 70 AD until the earthquake. The earthquake is the fire from heaven. After the earthquake, men can enter the temple of God and His Ark of the Testament, Rev 11:19. This means that the resur/rapt has happened, Jesus has come for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet, and the last judgment will be taking place. That is, the great earthquake of the 7th vial is the fire from heaven after the 2nd resurrection. If the 7th vial is showing the fire from heaven, then all of the other vials must take place before the 7th. It means that the vials take place before the resur/rapt and not after the coming for the kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 24 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 24 Friends, the American government has still not passed aid for Israel and Ukraine. If America does not send aid Israel and Jerusalem will fall. The support for Israel is failing. The enemies of Israel are gaining power. I truly believe that this is it, Jesus will come for the kingdom 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls as it shows in the 2 witnesses who are the people of Israel. The end of the War of Armageddon is coming. The battle of Armageddon is coming where Israel loses and Jerusalem falls. Look at the middle east! Look at what is happening right in front of us, right now! Behold, the Bridegroom cometh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 25 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 25 8 hours ago, abcdef said: 2nd timeline, same as the trumpets, 37 AD through 7th trumpet. (The seals and trumpets share the timeline in parallel united by the beast that rises from the abyss and then kills the 2 witnesses.) This should read, 2nd timeline, the 2 witnesses, the same as the trumpets, 37 AD through the 7th trumpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 25 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,207 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Online Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 25 On 2/3/2024 at 11:27 AM, abcdef said: Jerusalem will soon fall to Iran and it's allies, who are the kings of the east from across the Euphrates and their allies Magog. The war of Armageddon is happening now. It will end with the final battle of Armageddon where Israel will lose and Jerusalem falls. ------ How will the present conflict end? How long will it continue? There are forces at work right now to cut aid for Israel in the American congress. If that happens, it will mean the end of Israel. How much longer will Israel survive as a nation? ------ Can't you see that this situation in restored Jerusalem and Israel is shown in the 6th/7th trumpet? After Jerusalem falls, the 7th trumpet sounds, Jesus is revealed, and this planet is burnt toast. It's happening right in front of us. Hi a, I believe you are a bit premature. The Ez. 38 & 39 war from the Northern army is the one looming up on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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