Jedi4Yahweh Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 (edited) What does it mean that Cain was driven from the "face of the earth". I was looking up the definition of 'face' in Hebrew and Greek and it refers to the front side or surface of an object. In that same scripture it says that "Cain shall be a fugitive and vagabond 'in' the earth. The words fugitive and vagabond refers to one who has been rejected and cast out by a community. A few scriptures later it says that Cain had children and built a city. What does being driven from the "face of the earth" mean, yet he clearly seems to be living in a place where he found a wife and had children. Which also begs the question how did he find a wife being that he was no long living among the descendants of Adam, does the mean there were other people outside of the descendants of Adam? Edited February 12 by Jedi4Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.63 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 I look at being driven from the face of the earth meaning something like being excommunicated from the Church. Never really thought about it, but it's interesting to consider and I look forward to the more educated answers than I can't provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,983 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 30 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: What does it mean that Cain was driven from the "face of the earth". The word translated face can also mean favor, which the context of the passage seems to mean. Also the word translated earth is also translated ground. Since Cain was a farmer, it seems this is what the context seems to be talking about. Because of what he had done, the favor of the ground was against him and would not produce for him. So he would have to wonder around the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted February 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,825 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,815 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: What does it mean that Cain was driven from the "face of the earth". I was looking up the definition of 'face' in Hebrew and Greek and it refers to the front side or surface of an object. In that same scripture it says that "Cain shall be a fugitive and vagabond 'in' the earth. The words fugitive and vagabond refers to one who has been rejected and cast out by a community. A few scriptures later it says that Cain had children and built a city. What does being driven from the "face of the earth" mean, yet he clearly seems to be living in a place where he found a wife and had children. Which also begs the question how did he find a wife being that he was no long living among the descendants of Adam, does the mean there were other people outside of the descendants of Adam? I'll just list some scripture that may help. [1] Those "other people" HAD to have been children/grandchildren of Adam and Eve as the Bible says: "Eve was the mother of ALL the living" Genesis 3:20. That only means that all people descended from her, not that she physically bore all people. [2] Adam and Eve had MANY children. Genesis 5:4 states that Adam lived 930 years and had many children. NOT that he had all his children after Seth. "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters." The semi-colon there separates the two clauses. Clauses separated by a semi-colon can be related as these are. The origin of Seth and the multiple children of Adam and Eve. BUT - semi-colons do not necessarily make things chronological. Trust me, I taught English. [3] Besides - all people on the planet are related to Adam and Eve. She is the mother of all the living and Adam, well Adam is the FATHER of all the living. So says the book of Acts. "And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth...] Acts 17:26 So, all people are descended from Eve [and Adam]. And Adam and Eve had lots of children. When were they born? Where did they live? Who married whom? The Bible doesn't say. If there were people on the earth that were NOT descendants of Adam and Eve, they would have to go through the same temptation, sin, and crucifixion of Christ. Jesus would have die on the cross twice as he would only have been related to one of those groups. Cain, BEFORE the incest laws that God gave to Moses, married either a sister or a neice. Incest was not defined by God until Moses. Even Abraham married his half-sister. Edited February 12 by Jayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) @other one Maybe, but the reason he was a fugitive and vagabond was not because the earth/ground would not produce for him but cause he was in fear for his life for slaying Abel. Cain states clearly, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." Edited February 12 by Jedi4Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 13 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,983 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 10 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: @other one Maybe, but the reason he was a fugitive and vagabond was not because the earth/ground would not produce for him but cause he was in fear for his life for slaying Abel. Cain states clearly, "I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." Gen 4:10-13 10 And the Lord said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth." ESV I don't see where his fear came into the situation when God declared him to be a fugitive. His fear came after he was declared a fugitive, but God put that to rest with the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,874 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted February 13 (edited) The phrase is used in multiple places in scripture. Like here Noah certainly couldn't see the whole earth. Just that location where he was. Cain left the place/face of Eden. Genesis 8:13 And in the six hundred and first year, on the first day of the first month, the waters were dry on the earth: and Noah took the cover off the ark and saw that the face of the earth was dry. Edited February 13 by BeyondET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted February 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14 (edited) 20 hours ago, other one said: Gen 4:10-13 10 And the Lord said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength. You shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth." ESV I don't see where his fear came into the situation when God declared him to be a fugitive. His fear came after he was declared a fugitive, but God put that to rest with the mark. My point is that he did not leave because the ground would not produce as you stated, but because he slayed Abel. Yes, part of the curse is the ground would not produce. You do not become a fugitive because you can not grow good crops. Edited February 14 by Jedi4Yahweh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted February 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14 (edited) 20 hours ago, BeyondET said: The phrase is used in multiple places in scripture. Like here Noah certainly couldn't see the whole earth. Just that location where he was. Cain left the place/face of Eden. Genesis 8:13 And in the six hundred and first year, on the first day of the first month, the waters were dry on the earth: and Noah took the cover off the ark and saw that the face of the earth was dry. Says Cain was driven from the face of the earth which could also be translated land or grounds. So, yes looks like he was driven away from where the other decedents of Adam lived and farmed which looks to be somewhere in Eden. So yes it seems that Cain was driven away from Eden to live as a fugitive and wonderer. Edited February 14 by Jedi4Yahweh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 14 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,983 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14 24 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said: My point is that he did not leave because the ground would not produce as you stated, but because he slayed Abel. Yes, part of the curse is the ground would not produce. You do not become a fugitive because you can not grow good crops. God put his protection on him, so what was he afraid of from other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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