Vine Abider Posted February 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.37 Content Count: 3,427 Content Per Day: 6.24 Reputation: 2,283 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted February 29 On 2/28/2024 at 11:52 AM, Sower said: You say VA, man's being is composed of spirit, soul, and body which I have understood and agree. You say prior to salvation it is dead, or the 'condition is dead, and quote Eph. 2,1; says "And 'you' were dead in the trespasses and sins" I looked it up in different versions, same said. I could not find any where that said our spirit was dead prior to salvation, only us, or YOU were dead.. I have always thought/understood my corrupted self spirit had been used as a line to/from/influenced by, the god of this world, and then being born again of un-corruption, but I now have a made alive spirit unto God, WiFi, that communicates to me. Are you saying the enemy no longer communicates through our spirit after salvation, and/or did not communicate prior? If so, where does those thoughts that I take captive come from? Any verses could help understanding. I had thought prior to salvation only the enemy could communicate and after salvation the "line of communication" had also been enabled by God for learning and comfort and receive direction etc etc. Thanks VA... PS add; I do believe/understand that as born again my spirit can take charge of my actions as now enabled by God, through the spirit, but is still subject at times to miss the mark if I do not walk in the spirit. Sin is still ever before me, and unless I choose to abide, in the true vine Christ, I still can do nothing, as scripture says. But In Christ I can do all things. Here are a few verses: "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness." Romans 8:10 "That which is born of Spirit is spirit." John 3:6 "He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with Him." 1 Cor 6:17 So while none of these verses specifically say that our spirit is dead before regeneration, I think there is a pretty logical implication that this is the case. Romans 8:10 states, "the spirit is alive because of righteousness." What righteousness? It's twofold - the righteousness of Christ that makes regeneration possible; and our faith in Him is counted unto us as righteousness (Rom 4:22, Gal 3:6). So when we believe, our spirits are indwelt by His Spirit and are made alive by Him . . . so our spirit must have been the part of us that was previously dead. CC: @Marilyn C 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted February 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted February 29 16 hours ago, Sower said: "we operated through our physical body, its wants and our soulish desires. These were influenced by Satan and his demons" Just curious how satan and demons influenced our physical body and soul, as you stated, if not through our spirit. Do you believe our spirit can only be influenced by God's spirit within? Good stuff only. I have understood the enemy also has access to influence me through my spirit. When we are saved, is the access to our spirit now closed to the evil spirits? If so, what scripture? Not physical means but through my spirit, like now as I think, and how my thoughts generate, for good if in the spirit of God or evil if not taking evil thoughts/influence captive. 99.99% of my sin generates in my mind, the battle ground. Or do you believe the enemy has access straight to our now saved minds, reading/planting thoughts? Eph. 2: 1 (and 2) 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Thanks, Marilyn Hi Sower, Glad you brought up these questions as they have made me think. So, just some thoughts I have. Everyone has a spirit within them which will be for eternity. Those who turn to God have their spirit come alive to God while those who don`t turn to God their spirit is `dead` to God. They will go into the `Lake of fire` which is the second death. That means they are in a contained area and experience severe pain. They do not get new bodies, thus they cannot see, hear, feel, smell, etc but they have their guilty thoughts that condemn them forever. (Rev. 20: 15) Now, while we are living the enemy can bring wrong thoughts to our minds which we are to `cast down.` (2 Cor. 10: 5) Our minds are part of our soul area as Heb. 4: 12 tells us - `For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of the soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. ` `Thoughts and intents - soul and spirit.` I see that the intents, our motives come from our most inner being, our spirit, whereas the thoughts from those intents, desires are found in our soul area. Only God, His word can distinguish the two. It was the great wickedness of man, the intent of their spirit, that caused God to bring on the flood. `Then God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of their heart was only evil continually.` (Gen. 6: 5) I think the confusion comes from the word `dead,` which we tend to think of as in the ground, no consciousness. no life. And this is true of bodies, but the inner person, soul and spirit goes on. God is true Life, and those who turn to God receive that, while those who don`t have only `death,` nothing but pain and sorrow. So, I believe Satan and his demons can only influence our soulish area, our thoughts, and it is from wrong thoughts that wrong desires start to develop. We are accountable for our motives, desires, and thus need to deal with the wrong thoughts that arise. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted March 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.13 Reputation: 1,796 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted March 5 On 2/28/2024 at 11:52 AM, Sower said: You say VA, man's being is composed of spirit, soul, and body which I have understood and agree. You say prior to salvation it is dead, or the 'condition is dead, and quote Eph. 2,1; says "And 'you' were dead in the trespasses and sins" I looked it up in different versions, same said. I could not find any where that said our spirit was dead prior to salvation, only us, or YOU were dead.. I have always thought/understood my corrupted self spirit had been used as a line to/from/influenced by, the god of this world, and then being born again of un-corruption, but I now have a made alive spirit unto God, WiFi, that communicates to me. Are you saying the enemy no longer communicates through our spirit after salvation, and/or did not communicate prior? If so, where does those thoughts that I take captive come from? Any verses could help understanding. I had thought prior to salvation only the enemy could communicate and after salvation the "line of communication" had also been enabled by God for learning and comfort and receive direction etc etc. Thanks VA... PS add; I do believe/understand that as born again my spirit can take charge of my actions as now enabled by God, through the spirit, but is still subject at times to miss the mark if I do not walk in the spirit. Sin is still ever before me, and unless I choose to abide, in the true vine Christ, I still can do nothing, as scripture says. But In Christ I can do all things. A vast amount of confusion has resulted from scholars incorporating Greek ideas into their theology as a part of the study of the language of the New Testament. I routinely hear the statement "the soul consists of mind, will, and emotions". This comes directly from Greek ideas and is thoroughly inconsistent with the scriptures. The mind is not a part of the soul. Ephesians 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. I find nothing in scripture to support our soul having emotions or moods, this is a western idea. When someone says "I am in a bad mood today", I say no, you are in a wrong spirit, and need to overcome that unclean spirit by the Spirit of Christ that is in you. How do we do that? By speaking! By the confession of our mouths. That is where the Spirit manifests. To say that our spirit was dead is a way of conveying a state apart from the Zoe of God, but to have breathe is to have a spirit. "Let everything that has breath, praise the Lord." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted March 5 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.13 Reputation: 1,796 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted March 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mr. M said: The mind is not a part of the soul. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Body + Spirit=Soul A living soul has awareness, consciousness as a function of having a living body and the breath of life within. This is the spirit of the mind. Clearly, an interaction exists between all, but the mind must be able to function by the Spirit, and still be a living soul. The Word of God separates soul and spirit, which is discerned by the renewed mind, remaining aware of the body, but overcoming the desires within. Edited March 5 by Mr. M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Jah Posted March 5 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 Genesis 2:7 states that the man became a living soul. That says to me that the man is the soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,853 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Know Jah said: Genesis 2:7 states that the man became a living soul. That says to me that the man is the soul? The word from which the word soul is translated in many other places is translated creature. Many later translations translate it as creature or being in Gen. 2:7. All that just to say I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 5 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,460 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 5 With the world (first creation) cursed and the image of God ruined by sin... what is there to keep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Jah Posted March 11 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11 Mr. M I'm a bit confused where is the spirit? in Genesis 2:7? The breath of life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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