Is America Missing in Prophecy?

[Last Daze]

8 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Brother, 

First, please forgive me if I am missing some of your questions. If so, please feel free to re-ask them.

In answer to your question here, it is just a habit of mine to liken the empires in Holy Writ as beasts, just as the Holy Spirit has so often in His unction of giving forth the various prophecies concerning empires. So, since empires 3-6, Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece, and Rome were called "beasts" in the Book of Daniel, in my mind it is just easier to carry the noun all the way through to this prophecy’s conclusion, the eighth. I could have perhaps said “mountains,” since the angel mentions the seven heads as such, yet still, heads 3-6 were indeed elsewhere called beasts, and I believe the eighth is here also being prophetically represented by one.

For I believe that the Rev. 13"1 beast is the eighth, and the whole section of prophecy from 13 to the end of 18 is about the annihilation of the eighth, America, as well as those tangled in the Mystery Babylon Luciferian religious system, which being filled with confusion and chaos, functions under many banners. Hence, the harlot which has sat upon all the seven mountains throughout bible history, opposing God and His truth throughout the ages whereby history is riddled with many pagan religions and idols, even the worshipping of [fallen] angels as gods, on to Islam, and into New Age and such…

But I also believe this spiritual warfare has continued to diversify in its agenda, and that through the propagating of more and more harlots, hence the term Mother of Harlots. In Christendom, we might see the "mother" in Catholicism, and the "harlot" in all those that shot up through the reformation.

In my perspective, I think if anything, a “restoration” of the purity of the preaching of the Gospel would have been better than a “reformation” of the church, which then was predominantly Catholic. (And I am sorry for all the toes I might have just stepped on, no malice intended.)

But yet, we know historically that there were those resisting the apostacy of the Catholic church, and this is evident in the crimes, horrors, and atrocities committed by the Catholic church under banner of "contending for their faith," an apostate faith. All this has been recorded in history. But “who” were they persecuting again, true saints unwilling to acknowledge the apostasy being promoted as the truth of the Gospel, whereby many were torture, beheaded, or burned at the stake.

Yet from the very beginning this persecution has been waged, and that through many avenues, starting early with the Jews themselves, and getting a huge kickoff with Nero in Rome, and has continued throughout history - into the various inquisition" from the late 1100's, and into I believe early 1800's. 

While I have considerable respect for the puritans and many of the reformers, not all of them continued to completion their exit from the errors of Catholicism, for some chose to hold on to certain things that truly should have been left behind. We can see this in how many of them are even now speaking of returning to "the mother church," as well as the compromising of the Gospel in their pulpits nowadays.

All that said, your question, "why doesn't the imagery show it as such," that there is an eighth, again, I think that is what we are being given within the whole section of prophecy from 13 to the end of 18. In 13:1 a multifaceted prophetic image in the form of a beast (the 8th) rises from the sea of humanity which ultimately is seen to eventually yield itself to an apostate religious spirit (represented by it being ridden by the harlot).

As stated earlier, this, IMHO, is a covenanted relationship, whereby through an unholy union the 8^th and the harlot become as one in the judgment and outpouring of wrath of God.

But as far as the abyss, the bottomless pit, I truly believe it is not speaking of an actual place, but rather a condition of eternal condemnation. Contrasted with the saints who will never die, there are those entities who have committed sins unto death who will never have the extension of God’s grace or mercies. That even though they might have been temporary beneficiaries of God’s forbearance for His own purposes, forgiveness and reconciliation was never extended to them, these of course being the fallen angels. I touch on this in chap 20 of my book, touching on how God was “Justified in the Spirit.”

If what I am presenting, a condition of eternal condemnation being prophetically represented as an abyss, a bottomless pit with no end or hope to be had from one’s fallen state, then we can see how this apostate religious system which has been warring against literal Israel, and spiritual Israel, from the beginning has been in that state from the beginning. And just was Israel “was, and was not, and yet is” once again a thriving nation because they are “beloved for the fathers sake,” meaning God who cannot lie, has kept His covenants with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” and has preserved the lineage, with the assurance “a remnant shall be saved.”

Just contrast that with prayer thought and consideration of these previous seven empires upon which this apostate religious system has managed to manipulate empires and thrive in its warring against the saints.

I’m sorry, it’s late, and I have obligations tomorrow that oblige me to cut it short.

I will try and catch up later, probably in the evening as my family came into town today as well.

Blessings

Thanks for your thoughts.  Revelation 20 describes the abyss as a place, a prison where Satan is cast for 1000 years.  Eternal condemnation is the lake of fire.  

[BlindSeeker]

12 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Thanks for your thoughts.  Revelation 20 describes the abyss as a place, a prison where Satan is cast for 1000 years.  Eternal condemnation is the lake of fire.  

Yes, but it is one thing to be in a state of eternal condemnation, compared to be finally being placed there. For both are eternal, and without hope of forgiveness, parole, or reconciliation; but the later has the greater torment.

So, do you think the devil and the fallen angels are there now? 

If so, why are they described as being rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places? Or the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience? Or prince of this world?

Or why did legion cry out fearfully, asking Jesus, “Are you here to torment us before our time?”

Why when in Job’s day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, did Satan came also among them? And why was he just freely going here and there in the earth, walking up and down in it?

The question is whether the lake of fire truly a bottomless pit filled with fire, or a place of torment having no end? It might very well be. However, with all the imagery and symbolism, I personally find comfortable room to view the word “abyss” allegorically, as a state of hopeless eternal condemnation with indeed will come to a consummation, that being inescapable eternal-torment in a lake of fire.

But why do you think the Lord will release Satan after a thousand years for a brief season? What might possibly be the end that God intends to accomplish by this? 

[Last Daze]

13 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

However, with all the imagery and symbolism, I personally find comfortable room to view the word “abyss” allegorically, as a state of hopeless eternal condemnation with indeed will come to a consummation, that being inescapable eternal-torment in a lake of fire.

There are several liberties you take that I don't feel comfortable with and I think this leads to our divergent views.  Ultimately, it will work out according to the will of God.  Ours is to be ready, to pray for the strength to endure the things that will occur during the time of great tribulation, should we live that long.

[BlindSeeker]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:30 AM, Last Daze said:

There are several liberties you take that I don't feel comfortable with and I think this leads to our divergent views. 

I don't view it so much as taking liberties, more of purposing not to lock myself into a common mindset on things.

Like "the whole earth" or "whole world" often means nothing more than the whole land of a state or nation, or the whole known world. This is evident when Paul asked the questions"Has not their word gone out through all the world?" 

Or when we hear the phrase up to heaven, let it too can be merely allegorical as is evident from Deuteronomy 1:28, "The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven." 

Likewise, using the term beast, dragon, and serpent, or serpents and vipers, have all been used elsewhere in scripture to mean a variety of things from rulers, spiritual leaders, authorities and powers spiritual, like the Lord doesn't speaking to Ezekiel to prophesy against Pharaoh, "Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lies in the midst of his rivers, which has said, "My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself."

Or, as in Isaiah 27:1 "In that day the LORD with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Surely, the prophecy is layered, and indeed speaking of the devil. But because of verse 6 in that chapter, that "He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root and Israel shall blossom and blood and fill the face of the world with fruit," that the verse is also speaking about the slaying of the Babylonian leadership to set free the captives to return and rebuild Jerusalem in the temple. And in this passage the "sword" would would then be the Medo/Persia empire.

 

Psa 17:11-14 - They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth; 12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places. 13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is Thy sword: 14 From men which are Thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly Thou fillest with Thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

 

Would appreciate hearing your thoughts...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6 by BlindSeeker

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

I don't view it so much as taking liberties, more of purposing not to lock myself into a common mindset on things.

Like "the whole earth" or "whole world" often means nothing more than the whole land of a state or nation, or the whole known world. This is evident when Paul asked the questions"Has not their word gone out through all the world?" 

Or when we hear the phrase up to heaven, let it too can be merely allegorical as is evident from Deuteronomy 1:28, "The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven." 

Likewise, using the term beast, dragon, and serpent, or serpents and vipers, have all been used elsewhere in scripture to mean a variety of things from rulers, spiritual leaders, authorities and powers spiritual, like the Lord doesn't speaking to Ezekiel to prophesy against Pharaoh, "Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lies in the midst of his rivers, which has said, "My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself."

Or, as in Isaiah 27:1 "In that day the LORD with His sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Surely, the prophecy is layered, and indeed speaking of the devil. But because of verse 6 in that chapter, that "He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root and Israel shall blossom and blood and fill the face of the world with fruit," that the verse is also speaking about the slaying of the Babylonian leadership to set free the captives to return and rebuild Jerusalem in the temple. And in this passage the "sword" would would then be the Medo/Persia empire.

 

Psa 17:11-14 - They have now compassed us in our steps: they have set their eyes bowing down to the earth; 12 Like as a lion that is greedy of his prey, and as it were a young lion lurking in secret places. 13 Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is Thy sword: 14 From men which are Thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly Thou fillest with Thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

 

Would appreciate hearing your thoughts...

I see what you're getting at and I'm not saying that either of us is necessarily right or wrong.  We just have different ways of going about understanding prophetic scripture.

I see America in prophecy inasmuch as she and western Europe have embraced the harlot (apostate Israel), something that the beast and his 10 horns will destroy.  You see America as an 8th beast (if I understand correctly).

I think we both agree that America will come under judgment and sooner rather than later.  Her corruption is terminal and it would behoove us all to prepare for a time of great tribulation.  How God speaks this message to individuals is the work of His Spirit. 

[Michael37]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

You see America as an 8th beast (if I understand correctly).

She isn't and I wish he didn't.

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

She isn't and I wish he didn't.

It's the nature of the beast in a manner of speaking, brother. End times mania is the beast in question, of course. 

[BlindSeeker]

On 4/6/2024 at 4:53 PM, Last Daze said:

  We just have different ways of going about understanding prophetic scripture...

That is what I appreciate most, especially when the reasoning is respectful. Obviously we all see in part and know in part. 

It's almost as if two hikers entering into a forest from different ends and seeing things in a different order. But it's not until the patient reasoning in hopes of understanding the others conviction that Christ can given to it becomes obvious that they were just seeing it from different times, discovering it in different settings. It's the here a little and there little, line up on line, line upon line, precept upon precept.

Blessings.

[BlindSeeker]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:04 PM, Michael37 said:

 I wish he didn't.

Me too.

[Shilohsfoal]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:04 PM, Michael37 said:

She isn't and I wish he didn't.

No,the US is not the 8th.

Revelation 17:16

The scarlet beast and his ten horns all hate the prostitute. They will strip her naked, eat her flesh, and burn her remains with fire.

 

The bible is very clear that it is the Medes who attacks the prostitute.The Medes is present day Iran .

 

Jeremiah 51:11

“Sharpen the arrows, take up the shields! The LORD has stirred up the kings of the Medes, because his purpose is to destroy Babylon. The LORD will take vengeance, vengeance for his temple.

 

 

 

Anyone who believes the Medes is the United States is down right confused.