Many Are Called....

[OneAccord]

Hi Crusader, welcome to Worthy Boards. I am a sister

In the Book of Proverbs there are several passages with Wisdom speaking. The one we are referencing is Proverbs 8. Zebulon posted the second half of the chapter from 22-31. But in verse 12 we see clearly who is speaking: " I, wisdom," .......

Some Bible versions capitalize Wisdom, recognizing the deity here. I don't believe David is speaking here, I believe that the speaker is prophesying. Besides this is Proverbs not Psalms and supposedly Solomon wrote this.

To Part of the Flock:

"Do we always have to understand the scriptures in just one way?? Can it reach us in different ways depending on the revelation given to us?? "

In the Jewish rabbinical tradition there are 4 levels of interpretation for every scripture.

When I read Psalms, I can see David speaking, but then I can see Christ speaking, and I can see my own self speaking, and the children of Israel during Tribulation speaking. For example, read Psalm 23 in all 4 ways.

Each level of interpretation is a reflection of the One story that is running throughout the whole Bible. Redemption.

[Crusader4Christ]

Hi Crusader, welcome to Worthy Boards. I am a sister

In the Book of Proverbs there are several passages with Wisdom speaking. The one we are referencing is Proverbs 8. Zebulon posted the second half of the chapter from 22-31. But in verse 12 we see clearly who is speaking: " I, wisdom," .......

Some Bible versions capitalize Wisdom, recognizing the deity here. I don't believe David is speaking here, I believe that the speaker is prophesying. Besides this is Proverbs not Psalms and supposedly Solomon wrote this.

[Guest zebulon]

The Word is from John, not proverbs

[Guest zebulon]

I still can't see this as Jesus, because he was not created... he was never "brought forth"... he has always been. And he didn't watch GOD create the world, HE HIMSELF created the world...

as JOHN says

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Him is defined as the WORD (LOGOS) who was "with" God and "was" God... some

translations say "HE was in the beginning with God" others "the same was in the beginning."

Christ is the creator

Christ is the LORD

Christ is the WORD

Christ is the Lord who walked and talked with Adam and Eve

Christ is the Lord who met with Moses on Sinai

Christ is the being named Melchizedek who met Abraham and offered him the communion

of bread and wine (think about THAT one!)

[BlindSeeker]

Who, then, is 'Wisdom' in proverbs?

It is not "who," it is "what." What is wisdom?

Wisdom is simply personified in Proverbs for the purpose of conveyance. God

[Guest zebulon]

Blindseeker

I'l buy that

That's a very direct and clear interpretation. Though I still believe we of the elect pre-existed in some way, form, with God... and there was a pre-history... this scripture may not be one exampling that element, indeed.

God Bless ya!

[Guest Calamity]

BlindSeeker, I agree that the Proverbs 8 passage is a personification of wisdom. I don't think this was talking about a person.

As to our spirits having a pre-mortal existence like someone else was mentioning, I'm not so sure that that is backed up by any Scripture I can find. We see in Psalms, that we were certainly known in the womb. But, in Job, we see how God asked Job where he was when He laid the foundations of the earth.

Job 38

38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

38:21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born ? or because the number of thy days is great?

Ps 139

139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

There certainly are a lot of 'takes' on pre-mortal existence, including some New Age thoughts, and Mormonism. But, I'm not sure it can be supported by Scripture. If anyone finds one that seems to support it, please post it.

[Guest zebulon]

Calamity

Well jeremiah was told by God that he knew him BEFORE he was in his mother's womb...

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

Some also believe this passage in Jeremiah below shows the pre-history which brought

the first cataclysm, leaving the earth formless and void (for God did not create the earth

formelss and void, he says in Isaiah, but to be inhabited; Genesis is showing a "recreation"

or "restoration" of what once was, after Gen. 1:1)

" I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, **lo, there was no man,** and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end." Jer 4:23

also, in Genesis, God say to Man, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Gen 1:28

replenish means "To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to"

Likewise, in the creation events, one can see God refering to the animals as being "after their kind," implying they were before.

There is more evidence for a "first earth age" wherein the angels occupied than there is evidence for US being present in any way during that phase --- I believe THAT element is truly, entirely speculation. I don't believe there's any scripture that really proves we existed in some form before we did in this life, BUT I tend to believe the elect -- like jeremiah -- were in some form "alive" or known of God (more than just known as in had him in mind) before he/we were born. But it can't be proven, I don't think.

In addition to scripture, we have ample geological evidence of a first earth age and of civilizations of considerably advanced technology dating back before man's earliest achievements and some beyond the prehistoric level. A good book on this is Michael Cremo's "Forbidden Archeology" 1 and 2. It's thick reading, but amazing what scientists toss into the "doesn't compute" bin and simply ignore because it either challenges their present theories (ie, grant money) OR confirms Biblical truths.

[Catsmeow]

BSeeker: As always...so well said. Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. Blindseeker...our resident theologian. :a:

Zeb: We don't agree on some things but we do on this one.

I also believe we existed at a spirit level and with fellowship with God prior to becoming flesh. I have longed to have pre-existent memory but nothing. I wish I could recall but can't.

I am certain in my heart that we knew God in a personal way prior to...because scripture clearly says that He knew us even before we were knit together in the mother's womb.

Again, we are reminded that those He "foreknew" He did also predestine to be conformed into the image of His Son.

So there are scriptures which validate this but it's not absolute. It's what I strongly suspect, however.

[Crusader4Christ]

replenish means "To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to"

REPLENISH is from the KJV. But the other versions say "filled", not "filled again."

In old english, the word "replenish" meant "to fill", because "plenish" was not

a word yet. If all the other translations put fill, then this must mean the same

thing. REPLENISH = fill in old english.

God bless you brothers and sisters.