Many Are Called....

July 2, 2003

I think that God's foreknowledge of Jeremiah, doesn't mean that Jeremiah had a pre-mortal existence. The Mormons use that verse, along with John 1:2, and 14, to show that we had a pre-mortal existence, but I'm not sure I understand it that way.

Genesis 2

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

After Adam's flesh was created, then he became a living soul. I believe it's flesh first, then spirit. Until I can find something solid, I'll probably hold to this belief.

If the earth did have some kind of life before God created man, it doesn't mean that our spirits were here, or that we were here then. The thing I'm concerned about, is there isn't any solid scriptural proof for this that I know of, and I do know that some of the false religions hold to this teaching in one form or another. It could go right in with reincarnation and a lot of others.

July 2, 2003

Crusader

I've heard this before about KJV element, but somewhere in my clunky memory I recall

hearing a hebrew scholar discuss the "regenerative" elements of the language throughout

Genesis, including this about replenishing. ie, that the hebrew terms in the creation, AFTER

Genesis 1:1 are all "restorative" or "to make from what already is" or "renew" vs new creation in

Gen 1:1, "from nothing"

This would also explain why the Sun and moon and stars are not "revealed" until the third

day when we already have the statement in Gen 1:1 that God made the heavens and the

earth, as well as Peter saying "that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" not speaking of the Noahic flood, but rather the first flood we see in Genesis, when water covered everything which had formerly been.

here's a stumper... just for fun

Why does it say birds were created from the waters on the FIFTH day "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, **and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven**" and yet in Genesis 2:19 "And out of the GROUND the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every **fowl of the air**; " on the SIXTH day when he made man?

Catsmeow · July 2, 2003

False religions pick and choose whatever sells...Just because someone may take a piece here and a piece there doesn't mean everything they incorporate is wrong or false...but it's woven into a fabric of half-baked truths and sprinkled with error.

As I indicated...I strongly suspect that we who He foreknew - He truly KNEW, as intimately as a Father knows His own child. But that's something I strongly suspect and believe.

As a Christian teacher, I don't teach it or even intimate it because it's too uncertain. I do believe it's true but there's not enough solid scriptural evidence to support it - but it's what I believe at a heart level.

It doesn't in anyway communicate Reincarnation. God having foreknown us before birth wouldn't resemble reincarnation since that deals with people who have died and been born again in the flesh...

Christianity deals with rebirth of the spirit.

Clearly, we all know that it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement...

This is referring to a physical death, followed by God's judgement.

July 2, 2003

Yes, I know what you mean, catsmeow. What I meant by the pre-mortal existence going along with reincarnation was not God's foreknowledge, but our actual pre-mortal existence. I think that could be used in some people's idea of reincarnation. There are many versions of the pre-mortal existence. What you are talking about of course, isn't reincarnation - I didn't think that. But, there are some really strange ideas going around, and some of them deal with the pre-mortal thing in one way or another. I, too, believe that God foreknew us. He knows everything, before the fact, always. I just don't think that we were in actual existence as spirits, before we were in existence in our flesh. (In the womb, or conceived, I would consider in the flesh.) But I think God can foreknow us before then, without us actually existing.

Also, zebulon, the Strong's definition of the KJV's 'replenish' basically is to fill. I can put it here, but it's online also, if you want to look.

About the fowl thing, I'm still looking, but it's about bedtime! :sleep:

BlindSeeker · July 2, 2003

here's a stumper... just for fun

Catsmeow · July 2, 2003

Aflack!

July 2, 2003

Blindseeker

mmmmmm, could be, but it's peculiar that he would make some on one day, and others on another day of creation. A bird is a bird is a bird, whether its a duck or a sparrow.

but I like your explanation

July 3, 2003

ISA.64.vs.8----But now,O'LORD,THOU art our FATHER,we are the clay,and THOU our potter,and we all are the work of THY hand..-------

DID the clay EXIST before it was there to be fashioned into ????? whatever GOD wanted to form it into??

OR did the {thought--idea,clay--pot } exist in the MIND??SPIRIT?? of GOD--THE WORD--JESUS?? AS to WHAT GOD wanted the pot for??--to look like??the function it was to perform?? OR the reason{WHY} GOD wanted the POT for in the first place???? WHICH came first --the clay or the pot??-------------- :upsided: {Gary}

Catsmeow · July 3, 2003

I, too, believe that God foreknew us. He knows everything, before the fact, always. I just don't think that we were in actual existence as spirits, before we were in existence in our flesh. About the fowl thing, I'm still looking, but it's about bedtime! :sleep:

I guess none of will know until we are with Him and we know even as we are known.

What I said was based on Jeremiah 1:4-5

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.

This indicates some foreknowledge of Jeremiah prior to his birth.

This seems reasonable according to scripture but there's still some ambiguity to it.

But again, everything we stand on must line up with scripture and taken into context with other scripture.

Catsmeow · July 3, 2003

ISA.64.vs.8----But now,O'LORD,THOU art our FATHER,we are the clay,and THOU our potter,and we all are the work of THY hand..-------

DID the clay EXIST before it was there to be fashioned into ????? whatever GOD wanted to form it into??

OR did the {thought--idea,clay--pot } exist in the MIND??SPIRIT?? of GOD--THE WORD--JESUS?? AS to WHAT GOD wanted the pot for??--to look like??the function it was to perform?? OR the reason{WHY} GOD wanted the POT for in the first place???? WHICH came first --the clay or the pot??-------------- :upsided: {Gary}

Yeah, Gary..the chicken or the egg...