I have trouble with this verse

[NConly]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Repenting of unbelief is an instant thing as is salvation, whereas repentance of works is a lifelong thing. 

We may strive to be perfect like Jesus was/is. I do not think any of us will achieve perfection though or be sin free.

That might be why these verses are in the Bible.

1 Pet 1

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Cor  3

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[faithfull-prophet4040]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

We may strive to be perfect like Jesus was/is. I do not think any of us will achieve perfection though or be sin free.

That might be why these verses are in the Bible.

1 Pet 1

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Cor  3

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

Thank you them verses were helpful…

[faithfull-prophet4040]

7 hours ago, TheBlade said:

I'm not saved because I sin or never sin. I am saved because I believe He is who He said He was and where He came from John 3:16/Rom 10:9-10. Sin is fun for a season but what sin does is takes you away from God and then it will kill you. He loves us so much and He knows this is a fallen world. We come to Him as we are not only if we stop sinning first. For me  55y in the lord He has never once made me feel bad or guilty nor condemned me for any sin. The times I got stuck seeing just my sin wanting to walk away from all this.. all He did was tell my how righteous, in right standing with God. Its not how we see our selfs its how He sees us. Its already finished, Christ did it all not us. I don't have any right to sin but He already died for the sin of the world. 

So we are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness. Your looking at it wrong. Your "works" do not touch salvation. Some do tend to see sin as more powerful then Salvation.  Stop sinning.. like He told the one "go and sin no more least a worse thing come on you". If we focus on the sin that's all we will see. Look at what He already did...focus on Him. This is not a race to see who is the best at not sinning for we all lost already. Who do we rely on, lean on when we fall is what matters. Never take your eyes off Him. Do not get stuck looking at self. Its all Him.. His joy, His strength, His peace, His armor,  His might blah blah blah. 

My wife once said to me about 35y ago "if you love me you would not do that". Just knowing she was right was not good enough. I had to know I was wrong and want to change. I'm getting at .. I don't do good works because I was told to or thats what the bible says. Doing it that way.. well its not good works. It has to be from the heart.. its just in me.. I want to do good things yet there is the other side that loves so sin. Its a fight we do every moment of ever day no one is free YET from it. Its why in Eph we read "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind" and in Phil where we think on these "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things" and "where we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ”.

We have to do these things 24/7 for sin is always as the door.  So you are in right standing with God not because of good works but what Christ has already done. 

I get what your saying and I do agree 😇. I will say though I don’t like to sin anymore, I used to very much, mainly when it came to substance abuse. Also thank you for being such a kind person I appreciate and feel much care for kind people I feel that they deserve to be treated with the up most respect, all people do but especially someone with a kind heart.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

 

When you were the servants of sin ( 1 John 3:4 ) you were free from righteousness.
What fruit had you in those things whereof you are now ashamed?
For the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin ( 1 John 3:4 ) ,
and become servants unto God, ( John 10:27,  2 John 1:9 )
you have your fruit unto holiness, ( John 15:5-10 )
and the end everlasting life. [ Galatians 6:7-9 ]

The wages of sin (1 John 3:4) is death:
but the gift of God is eternal life In Christ Jesus Our Lord. ( John 15:10 )
Romans 6:20-23
 

Now, if I do what I don't want to do,
it is no more I that do it,
but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that, when I want to do good
evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

But I see another law in my members,
warring against the law of my mind,
and bringing me into captivity
to the law of sin which is in my members.
So then with the mind I my conscious self serve the law of God,
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Oh wretched man that I am!
Who shall save me from this body of death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!  [ Titus 3:5-6 ]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are
in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.

Because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [ Luke 6:63 ]
has made me free from the law of sin and free from death.

For what the Torah (the law of Moses) could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteous requirement of the law [ Deut. 10:16-19, Micah 6:8 ]
might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit. [ John 10:27, Luke 6:27, Matthew 7:12, Romans 13:10 ]

Contextual Romans 7:23 through Romans 8:4

Because as many as are led by the Spirit of God
they are the children of God.
Romans 8:14  [ John 3:5-6 ]

 

If you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more shall the Father give the Holy Ghost
to those who ask Him?
Luke 11:13

Repent and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ { Numbers 13:16 }
for the remission of sins,
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38

after that you heard the word of truth, [ 1 Timothy 6:3-4 ]
the good news of your salvation: [ John 10:27-28 ]
in Whom also after that you believed,
you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
Ephesians 1:13

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves.
The Holy Spirit is the gift of God:
not of works, lest any man should boast.
Because we are Gods creation, created in Christ Jesus,
for good works, that God has before
ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10

 

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
meekness and self control.
Galatians 5:23

And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh
with its passions and lusts.
Galatians 5:24

 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

My two ₵

Works and repentance are a proof of genuine Salvation.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (James 2:18) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)

In First John chapter two, the apostle outlines a seven-question self-evaluation Salvation test, I encourage studying it.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew 6:24)

We either love and serve God, or we are self-serving to ourselves and darkness.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (1 Corinthians 13:13) [charity = agape = love]

We are the bride of Christ. An analogy: As a husband, I trust my wife to remain faithful and loyal to me to the end. I could tell her all day long that I love her. Where is the proof of that love without works, only meaningless words? Doing for her, recognizing her, and cherishing her with works and deeds are the actions and proof of my agape love. Whereas faith without works is dead.

Our works of wood, hay, and stubble will be burnt up, but:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: (Matthew 6:20)

Without effort and righteous works, we will not see the kingdom of Heaven.

[Starise]

There are counterfeits out there. People who do outward acts like the pharisees. I think true believers are more of a constant in the things they do, and they don't do them to be noticed since they do them for God alone. 

Can we tell a true believer from the counterfeit? Should it even be our business to do so? Several well know ministers have fallen to sexual sin. One might be quick to say they were not belivers. Was David a believer? We know he was and yet he allowed himself to be tempted and sin. 

The difference between David and an unbeliever is he truly repented. On the surface it may have looked as if he repented because he was discovered. Up until then he seemed to be able to live with it. The same could be said of those other ministers I mentioned. 

These matters of the heart can look one way and be another. A man who falls into drugs can have a sincere heart even if he falls. He knows if he gets back up again and repents God stands there ready to take him back into close fellowship. That's what we lose when we sin, close fellowship with God. Yet we all sin hopefully it's only occasionally. That man is more just than David was for a time in going on as if he didn't do anything. 

[D. Adrien]

7 minutes ago, Starise said:

There are counterfeits out there. People who do outward acts like the pharisees. I think true believers are more of a constant in the things they do, and they don't do them to be noticed since they do them for God alone. 

Can we tell a true believer from the counterfeit? Should it even be our business to do so? Several well know ministers have fallen to sexual sin. One might be quick to say they were not belivers. Was David a believer? We know he was and yet he allowed himself to be tempted and sin. 

The difference between David and an unbeliever is he truly repented. On the surface it may have looked as if he repented because he was discovered. Up until then he seemed to be able to live with it. The same could be said of those other ministers I mentioned. 

These matters of the heart can look one way and be another. A man who falls into drugs can have a sincere heart even if he falls. He knows if he gets back up again and repents God stands there ready to take him back into close fellowship. That's what we lose when we sin, close fellowship with God. Yet we all sin hopefully it's only occasionally. That man is more just than David was for a time in going on as if he didn't do anything. 

There are men like Ravi Zacherius, (sp), who lived a double life. I don't believe he ever believed in the power of a living God as described in the bible. How many knew of his shenanigans yet never alerted the sheep that were tithing to Ravi?

[Starise]

4 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

There are men like Ravi Zacherius, (sp), who lived a double life. I don't believe he ever believed in the power of a living God as described in the bible. How many knew of his shenanigans yet never alerted the sheep that were tithing to Ravi?

He was one of the guys I thought of . I have one of his books. I don't know how any man could continue with a lifestyle like that over years if they claim to be a believer. Maybe you remember the Bakers and that whole fiasco. We see men in present day mega churches who simply won't preach the entire gospel or have folded on solid bible teachings. This is what makes me think most televangelists are suspect.

Then there is the whole Bethel music fiasco and some of those odd beliefs and songs. 

God had to do some long term working on me. If any man could loose salvation I would have been the one. I knew I was at fault but was into a vice that was hard to quit. I must have repented thousands of times. It was sincere. I was sorry. Every time.It took God doing some radical things to me or allowing some radical things to turn me right. I can't imagine still being on that treadmill today. I'm so very thankful for His intervention.

[D. Adrien]

1 minute ago, Starise said:

He was one of the guys I thought of . I have one of his books. I don't know how any man could continue with a lifestyle like that over years if they claim to be a believer. Maybe you remember the Bakers and that whole fiasco. We see men in present day mega churches who simply won't preach the entire gospel or have folded on solid bible teachings. This is what makes me think most televangelists are suspect.

Then there is the whole Bethel music fiasco and some of those odd beliefs and songs. 

God had to do some long term working on me. If any man could loose salvation I would have been the one. I knew I was at fault but was into a vice that was hard to quit. I must have repented thousands of times. It was sincere. I was sorry. Every time.It took God doing some radical things to me or allowing some radical things to turn me right. I can't imagine still being on that treadmill today. I'm so very thankful for His intervention.

As long as repentance is ongoing, God will forgive. How many times are we told to forgive when Jesus is asked? To be playing a money game and not believing is a whole different story.

A good carnal life to be had by duping Christians.

[Tristen]

Hey fp,

This question can be addressed from several angles.

- The term “repentance” simply refers to a change of direction. In the case of salvation, we turn towards serving God (in righteousness), and away from serving ourselves and the corrupted desires of our flesh. In confessing Christ as Lord, we make an active decision to enter into His process of sanctification – allowing the Holy Spirit to separate us (our behaviors) from the corrupted world. That is, even though we stumble, we always turn back to God (repent). That is the direction we have chosen to travel.

- Central to the concept of Christian repentance is the recognition that sin is bad – not just in some ethereal, abstract, theological sense, but literally bad for us. Sin destroys us. Sin is the lie that we are missing out on something if we behave with righteous self-control. Sin is corruption, and deceit, and bondage, and death. Sin is not good nor to be desired, but rather something we need to be saved from.

- By contrast, righteousness is health, and freedom, and peace, and joy. Righteousness means we are in control of our actions – rather than being dictated to by our flesh. Righteousness is the power to live the all-conquering life God prepared for us.

- The reason we need a Savior is that we are corrupted beyond the capacity to be righteous enough to save ourselves. Perfect righteousness is the standard. We have all fallen well short. There is therefore no super-moral act that could add righteousness to our account. Nothing we do can ever earn God’s favor. Our salvation comes entirely by trusting in the grace offered through the Gospel of Christ. Therefore, Christ alone is exclusively deserving of all glory - we cannot take any credit for our own salvation. Nothing we ever did, nor can do, can ever make us deserving.

- To receive that salvation, one must sincerely surrender ownership of their life to the lordship of Christ as a faith response to His Gospel. That decision infers that we are no longer our own masters, but He is our Master/Owner/Lord. In choosing to make Jesus our Lord, we are choosing to surrender our behaviors to Him – i.e. to do those things that are in our eternal best interest – i.e. to live the free, overcoming, all-conquering life He created for us to enjoy – i.e. to have dominion over our flesh, rather than be enslaved to its desires.

- Because He loved us and saved us, we love Him and desire to do the things that are pleasing to Him. Good behavior is a natural response to comprehending His salvation – and the love expressed through His sacrifice for us.