Israel & Palestinian Situation - Significantly Driven by Extremists

[Vine Abider]

The month of May this year will mark the 76th anniversary of Israel being called a nation again in 1948. I've recently developed something of an apatite to get a better understanding of the middle east situation.  So I've been reading various things on the internet and have a couple books & videos coming on the subject. I'm certainly aware that there are (at least) two sides to this conundrum and therefore two differing perceptions.

So far three things have surfaced that seem to be a synopsis of what has/is transpiring in the middle east:

1. The UN sought to create two nations in the middle east in 1948 - Israel & Palestine. Israel accepted this idea; Arabs generally did not and attacked Israel.

2. Israel has repeatedly supported the UN idea of a two-state solution; Arab/Iranian extremists have consistently driven the agenda that Israel should not even exist.

3. Extremist actions took place on both sides: The world is painfully aware of Muslim terrorist activity; However, atrocities/massacres were also carried out by Israeli extremists, pointedly so in 1948 (aka "Nakba Day" - or the catastrophe).

So the dire situation there has been fueled by much hatred and reinforced by ongoing violent acts, and especially by extremists.  According to what I see in the bible, as the whole thing is ready to hit the fan big time and probably suck much of the world up in it, one person will arise with the apparent solution and make the long sought treaty.  This remarkable person, will be thought of as a real savior of mankind.

[AnOrangeCat]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

1. The UN sought to create two nations in the middle east in 1948 - Israel & Palestine. Israel accepted this idea; Arabs generally did not and attacked Israel.

2. Israel has repeatedly supported the UN idea of a two-state solution; Arab/Iranian extremists have consistently driven the agenda that Israel should not even exist.

3. Extremist actions took place on both sides: The world is painfully aware of Muslim terrorist activity; However, atrocities/massacres were also carried out by Israeli extremists, pointedly so in 1948 (aka "Nakba Day" - or the catastrophe).

This is more or less the cliff notes version of it. It might be beneficial to look into the PLO, or the Palestinian Liberation Organization, for a deeper understanding. The PLO isn't entirely one organization. It's a loose confederation of several with some significantly differing approaches and agendas, some of which have had ties to other nations in the area. Much like how the US and Russia used different smaller nations against each other in the cold war, other Arab nations have dipped into different elements of the PLO to use as a puppet against Israel. It's no wonder the PLO has a history of saying peace on one side and going militant on the other.

Something that I've noticed is that in a way Israel seems less relevant to the rest of the world's eyes than it did in the past. Israel has a history of being a longstanding strategic partner to the US, and the west's support of it was more or less a given. These days a lot of the news coming in about that part of the world is less about the situation and more about how people in the west are reacting to it, like our lawmakers and all the protests.

Edited April 29 by AnOrangeCat

[1to3]

Thank you @Vine Abider, for posting this in the general section where it can read by all .

I too would like to understand better and I also found recently an article that gives the history as impartial as it can, with basic facts that can't be denied.

If you don't mind I would like to share it here so all can read it:

This is what has been written down as facts  from Britanica:

two-state solution

Israeli-Palestinian history

 

 

 

Written and fact-checked by

 

 

 

Last Updated: Mar 27, 2024 • Article History

https://cdn.britannica.com/17/201417-050-D3316841/vision-Israel-state-West-Bank-Palestinian-Gaza-1988.jpg?w=400&h=300&c=crop

Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip: pre-1967 borders

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Participants:

Israel

Palestine Liberation Organization

Context:

Hussein-McMahon correspondence

Palestinian Authority

Oslo Accords

Cairo Agreement

Key People:

Yasser Arafat

Ehud Barak

Benjamin Netanyahu

Shimon Peres

Ariel Sharon

 

 

two-state solution, proposed framework for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by establishing two states for two peoples: Israel for the Jewish people and Palestine for the Palestinian people. In 1993 the Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) agreed on a plan to implement a two-state solution as part of the Oslo Accords, leading to the establishment of the Palestinian Authority (PA).

Palestinian Authority (PA).

 

Historical background and basis

The two-state solution proposed by the Oslo Accords was born out of a series of historical events. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Jews and Arabs both claimed the right to self-determination in historical Palestine. A first attempt at partitioning the land in 1948 resulted in an Israeli state but no Palestinian state, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip fell under Jordanian and Egyptian rule, respectively. In the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel captured and occupied the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and other Arab territories, which in the aftermath led to the idea that Israel would exchange land it had captured for peace with its Arab neighbours, including, eventually, the Palestinians.

 

Competing nationalisms and partition

Both Jewish and Palestinian expectations for an independent state in historical Palestine can be traced to World War I, as the United Kingdom attempted to shore up support against the Ottoman Empire and the Central Powers. The Hussein-McMahon correspondence of 1915–16 promised British support for Arab independence in exchange for Arab support against the Ottoman Empire. Though the correspondence discussed the extent of territory under Arab rule, historical Palestine, which was not located along the disputed edges and whose population was predominantly Arab, was not explicitly discussed and was assumed to be included in the agreement by Hussein ibn Ali, the emir of Mecca, and his supporters. The following year /the Balfour Declaration / promised British support for the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.

Over the following decades, waves of Jewish immigration to Palestine led to a significant increase in the Jewish population. The rapid immigration rate, which was managed by the United Kingdom, was met with protests from the Arab population. In 1947, as the United Kingdom prepared to withdraw from the region, the United Nations passed a partition plan (known as UN Resolution 181) that would divide Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, an idea originally proposed by the British government about a decade earlier. The partition plan was rejected by the Arabs, and the ensuing conflict over territory led to the first Arab-Israeli war (1948–49).

At the close of the war, the State of Israel had captured additional territory, while Transjordan (now Jordan) took control of the West Bank and Egypt took control of the Gaza Strip. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians either fled or were expelled, most of them becoming stateless refugees, while hundreds of thousands of Jews fled or were expelled from Arab countries and were resettled in Israel. Palestinians, having no government of their own, organized themselves into many separate groups to promote a nationalist struggle. These groups were largely superseded by the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964, an umbrella group promoting Palestinian self-determination.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip

https://cdn.britannica.com/20/99920-050-441604E2/Israeli-troop-unit-Gaza-Six-Day-War-June-6-1967.jpg?w=300

Six-Day War in Gaza

Israeli armored troop unit entering Gaza during the Six-Day War, June 6, 1967.

https://cdn.britannica.com/90/151790-050-D17F8329/Anwar-Sadat-Pres-Egyptian-Menachem-Begin-Israeli-September-17-1978.jpg?w=300

Anwar Sadat, Jimmy Carter, and Menachem Begin

(From left) Egyptian Pres. Anwar Sadat, U.S. Pres. Jimmy Carter, and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin signing the Camp David Accords at the White House, Washington, D.C., September 17, 1978.

Conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbours was renewed with the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel took control of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as the Egyptian and Jordanian armies retreated. The Sinai Peninsula was among other territories captured by Israel in the war that were not claimed by the Palestinians. In 1979 the territory was returned to Egypt as part of a comprehensive peace agreement known as the Camp David Accords. That agreement, which solidified the idea of “land for peace” as a negotiating principle, included principles that laid the foundation for a two-state solution.

In 1987 Palestinians living under Israeli rule began an uprising, known as the first intifada. The minister of defense Yitzhak Rabin initiated a harsh crackdown in an attempt to suppress the uprising. The determination of the Palestinians, however, convinced him and many other Israelis that permanent peace would not be possible without recognizing and negotiating with the Palestinians. While the Likud government of Yitzhak Shamir accepted dialogue with the PLO in Madrid in 1991, it came only after years of stalling and under intense pressure from the United States. In 1992 Rabin (now leader of the Labour Party) was elected prime minister with a mandate to pursue peace with the PLO.

 

Oslo peace process

In the 1990s a breakthrough agreement negotiated between Israeli and Palestinian leaders in Oslo, Norway, set out a process for a mutually negotiated two-state solution to be gradually implemented by the end of the decade. Although the process showed initial promise and progress, a combination of dissatisfaction and distrust led to the breakdown and delay of the process. After frustration and provocation led to the outbreak of violence in 2000, the process proved difficult to restart before coming to a virtual halt after 2008.

 

virtual halt after 2008.

 

Implementation of a two-state solution

https://cdn.britannica.com/69/20969-004-AEB323BC/Pres-Bill-Clinton-Yitzhak-Rabin-Yasser-Arafat-September-1993.jpg?w=300

Oslo Accords

U.S. Pres. Bill Clinton looking on as Yitzhak Rabin (left) shakes hands with Yasser Arafat after signing the Oslo Accords in September 1993.

https://cdn.britannica.com/13/22613-138-08CC288B/US-President-Bill-Clinton-Israeli-Prime-Minister-Yitzhak-Rabin-Palestian-leader-Yassar-Arafat-1993.jpg?w=800&h=450&c=crop

Discover a historical milestone in the Israeli-Palestinian relationship with the signing of the Declaration of Principles, 1993

U.S. Pres. Bill Clinton shaking hands with Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat after the signing of the Declaration of Principles on Palestinian Self-Rule, 1993.

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In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

 

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Dissent and disruption

From the start, some Israelis and Palestinians sought to disrupt a two-state solution. Religious nationalists on both sides believed their respective governments did not have the right to cede any part of the land. In 1994, during the overlap of the Jewish festival of Purim and the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Jewish extremist Baruch Goldsteino called the Tomb of the Patriarchs) opened fire on Muslim worshippers in the Sanctuary of Abraham above the Cave of Machpelah (alsn Hebron, a holy site frequented by both Jews and Muslims. The same year, Hamas, a militant Palestinian organization that likewise rejected a two-state solution, began a campaign of suicide bombings. On November 4, 1995, Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist while attending a peace rally.

 

As the election campaign to replace Rabin was underway, violence from the dissenters persisted. After a series of suicide bombings orchestrated by Hamas in early 1996, Benjamin Netanyahu (Likud Party), campaigning on a slogan of “peace with security,” won the election against key Oslo negotiator Peres. Upon becoming prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu initially refused to meet with Arafat or to implement Israel’s withdrawal from Hebron as agreed upon by his predecessor. Netanyahu and Arafat later agreed to a partial withdrawal from the city with the 1997 Hebron Agreement. In October 1998, five years after the Oslo Accords were signed and final status negotiations were supposed to take place, Netanyahu and Arafat concluded the Wye River Memorandum. Under this agreement, Israel was to continue a partial withdrawal from the West Bank while the PA was to implement a crackdown on Palestinian violence. The agreement was suspended the following month, however, after opposition in Netanyahu’s coalition threatened a vote of no confidence in the Knesset, Israel’s legislative body. Despite the suspension of the agreement, the Knesset voted no confidence anyway, and early elections were held.

 

In the 1999 elections the Labour Party was returned to power, and the new prime minister, Ehud Barak, pursued final status negotiations. Though negotiations progressed, a high-profile summit at Camp David fell through, and Barak’s premiership was short-lived. Negotiations were likewise disrupted with Likud leader Ariel Sharon’s contentious visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. The Temple Mount, which is also the site of Al-Aqṣā Mosque and the Dome of the Rock, is sacred to both Jews and Muslims and is located in a central area of Jerusalem claimed by both Israelis and Palestinians as part of their capital.  The visit was seen as a deliberate provocation and sparked riots. . Barak resigned in late 2000 before any final status agreements could be reached.

 

Progress stalled: Sharon, intifada, and Kadima

https://cdn.britannica.com/05/179905-138-47A0CD5A/Overview-Dome-of-the-Rock-Jerusalem.jpg?w=800&h=450&c=crop

The Dome of the Rock explained

Overview of the Dome of the Rock, Jerusalem.

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https://cdn.britannica.com/28/196628-138-BCF8B0A9/Dome-of-the-Rock-monument-Islamic-Jerusalem.jpg?w=800&h=450&c=crop

Explore the history behind the Islamic shrine Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem

Learn about the Dome of the Rock, the oldest extant Islamic monument, which was completed in 619–692 in Jerusalem.

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Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

Sharon suffered a massive stroke in early 2006, only months before elections. Ehud Olmert became acting prime minister and took the reins of Kadima, which became the dominant party in the Knesset after the elections. The PA also held legislative elections early that year, in which Hamas won a surprise majority. Although some leaders of Hamas now indicated a willingness to accept a two-state solution, as well as the bilateral agreements between Israel and the PA, Israel was unwilling to negotiate with a Hamas-led government.

 

After armed infighting among factions in 2007, PA Pres. Mahmoud Abbas dissolved the government, leaving Hamas out of the PA. Peace talks between Israel and the PA commenced later that year with an international conference in Annapolis, Maryland, U.S. The negotiations continued into 2008 but failed to lead to a new deal after Olmert was forced to step down amid corruption charges. His foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, was unable to win the post of prime minister to replace him. The contents of the talks, which discussed final status issues, were leaked and published by Al Jazeera in 2011. Both sides seemed to accept on principle the division of Jerusalem and a symbolic number of Palestinians refugees to be repatriated into Israel. In one of the meetings, moreover, Olmert offered the Palestinian negotiators more than 93 percent of the territory they claimed in the West Bank.

 

Abandonment of negotiations: Netanyahu, Jewish settlements in the West Bank, and the 2020 proposal

https://cdn.britannica.com/59/182059-050-ED7654C4/Gilo-settlement-wall-Israeli-city-West-Bank.jpg?w=300

Gilo: Jewish settlement near Bethlehem

Gilo, a Jewish settlement in the West Bank, separated by a wall from the Palestinian city of Bethlehem.

Netanyahu was returned to the post of prime minister in 2009. President Abbas insisted that Netanyahu pick up negotiations where Olmert had left them and refused to meet without a freeze on building Jewish settlements on territory claimed by the Palestinians. Under pressure from the United States, Netanyahu implemented a freeze on settlements in the West Bank from November 2009 to September 2010. Because a freeze was not implemented for Jewish neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, which Netanyahu insisted were not settlements, Abbas refused to meet until the last few weeks of the freeze. When the freeze ended, negotiations ceased. Direct talks did not occur again until Livni was appointed to resume the task in 2013–14. The talks fell apart after relations continued to falter and negotiators failed to make significant progress within the set timetable.

After years of negotiations at a standstill, the administration of U.S. Pres. Donald Trump announced its intent to revive the peace process in 2017. Though both Israeli and Palestinian leaders initially reacted to the initiative with optimism, the Palestinians were disheartened when the United States recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in December 2017 and moved its ambassadorial mission to that city the following May. As tensions brewed between the United States and the PA, the United States began to cut funding to the PA, as well as to UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East) and other aid programs, arguing that the support was not in accordance with the U.S. national interest. The country also ordered the closure of the PLO office in Washington, D.C., citing its recent lack of negotiations with Israel.

 

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

 

Kadima

political party, Israel

 

 

 

Written and fact-checked by

 

 

 

Article History

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Ariel Sharon

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Hebrew:

“Forward”

Date:

November 2005 - present

Related People:

Ariel Sharon

Tzipi Livni

Ehud Olmert

 

Kadima, centrist Israeli political party formed in November 2005 by Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon following his split from the Likud party. When his policy of unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip and certain West Bank settlements encountered opposition from within Likud, Sharon decided to form a centre-oriented alternative to both the right-wing Likud and the social-democratic Israel Labour Party. A number of prominent members of Likud (e.g., Ehud Olmert, a former mayor of Jerusalem, and Tzipi Livni, Israel’s minister of justice) and a smaller number from Labour (e.g., former prime minister Shimon Peres) left their parties to join Kadima.

Kadima was founded on the basis of a centrist ideology. It supports dialogue with the Palestinians, a two-state solution, and a policy of territorial concession to retain a Jewish majority in Israel.

After Sharon suffered a debilitating stroke in January 2006, Olmert became acting prime minister and assumed leadership of the party. In the March 2006 general election, the first in which Kadima participated, the party secured 29 Knesset seats. After forming a coalition that included Labour-Meimad (a partnership between Labour and Meimad, a moderate religious group; 19 seats), Pensioners’ Party (7 seats), and Shas (12 seats), Olmert was confirmed as prime minister in May. He promised to continue Sharon’s policies of disengagement from Israeli-occupied areas and of setting permanent borders between Israel and the Palestinians by 2010. As time passed, Olmert faced multiple allegations of corruption, and calls for his resignation mounted. In July 2008 he announced that he would step down following party elections scheduled for later that year.

In September 2008 Livni (since March 2006 Israel’s minister of foreign affairs) was elected to lead Kadima, and Olmert formally resigned. Livni was unable to piece together a governing coalition, however, so Olmert remained acting prime minister, and general elections were called for February 2009. Although Kadima won 28 seats (one more than Likud), because of the close and inconclusive nature of the results, it was not immediately clear whether Livni or Benjamin Netanyahu—the head of Likud since Sharon’s departure from that party in 2005—would be invited to form a coalition government. Through the course of coalition discussions in the days that followed, Netanyahu gathered the support of Yisrael Beiteinu (15 seats), Shas (11 seats), and a number of smaller parties, and he was asked by Israel’s president to form the government. In March 2012 Livni lost Kadima’s leadership election and was replaced by Shaul Mofaz, a retired general and former Likud minister of defense. Livni ran under a new party in the 2013 elections, drawing votes away from Kadima, which received only two seats. The party did not win any seats in the 2015 elections and became defunct thereafter.

 

Jew people

Jew, any person whose religion is Judaism. In the broader sense of the term, a Jew is any person belonging to the worldwide group that constitutes, through descent or conversion, a continuation of the ancient Jewish people, who were themselves descendants of the Hebrews of the Bible (Old Testament). In ancient times, a Yĕhūdhī was originally a member of Judah—i.e., either of the tribe of Judah (one of the 12 tribes that took possession of the Promised Land) or of the subsequent Kingdom of Judah (in contrast to the rival Kingdom of Israel to the north). The Jewish people as a whole, initially called Hebrews (ʿIvrim), were known as Israelites (Yisreʾelim) from the time of their entrance into the Holy Land to the end of the Babylonian Exile (538 bce). Thereafter, the term Yĕhūdhī (Latin: Judaeus; French: Juif; German: Jude; and English: Jew) was used to signify all adherents of Judaism, because the survivors of the Exile (former inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah) were the only Israelites who had retained their distinctive identity. (The 10 tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel had been dispersed after the Assyrian conquest of 721 bce and were gradually assimilated by other peoples.) The term Jew is thus derived through the Latin Judaeus and the Greek Ioudaios from the Hebrew Yĕhūdhī. The latter term is an adjective occurring only in the later parts of the Hebrew Bible and signifying a descendant of Yehudhah (Judah), the fourth son of Jacob, whose tribe, together with that of his half brother Benjamin, constituted the Kingdom of Judah.

In the modern world, a definition of Jew that would be satisfactory to all is virtually impossible to construct, for it involves ethnic and religious issues that are both complex and controversial. In daily life, for example, those who consider themselves Jews are generally accepted as such by Jews and non-Jews alike, even though such persons may not observe religious practices. While all Jews agree that a child born of a Jewish mother is Jewish, Reform Judaism goes beyond Orthodox and Conservative Judaism in affirming that a child is Jewish if either one of the parents is a Jew.

From a purely religious standpoint, Gentile converts to Judaism are accepted as Jewish in the fullest sense of the word. Under Israel’s Law of Return (1950) as amended in 1970, all non-Israeli Jews and Gentile converts to Judaism are entitled to settle in Israel and receive full Israeli citizenship. However, converts who wish to marry in Israel must demonstrate that they were converted under the supervision of an Orthodox rabbi approved by the country’s chief rabbinate, which is authorized to settle questions of personal status regarding marriage and divorce. The Supreme Court of Israel has made incursions into rabbinic interpretations of personal status.

Citizens of the State of Israel are called Israelis, a term carrying no ethnological or religious connotations.

Ref.: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Jew-people

 

[Dennis1209]

This conflict goes back to the birthright of Esau (ole Red) as the rightful heir and Jacob (heel catcher) usurping by deceit the promise.

History is replete with extremists toward Israel, Gen. 3:15, Gen. 6:1-4, the Egyptian Pharaoh, Haman, Hitler, and on and on.

The Arabs claim Palestine is theirs, that they were there first, according to their holy book, the Koran, and the sayings of Mohammad, the Hadith. Esau, rather than Jacob, inherited the promised land. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The so-called Palestinian Refugees and tent city is a ruse used as a bargaining chip and sympathy card. It is too lengthy to detail that history, other than to say they could easily be absorbed in neighboring Arab countries, but they do not want them either.  

Both historical and archeological evidence supports Israel's claim to the land, and Israel was there first. Not all Jews left the land during the diaspora. The narrated official mantra and slogan of the PLO, Iran, and their proxies is to drive Israel into the sea and remember them no more. Israel agreed to their terms on several occasions, and the extremists still rejected them.

As Vine mentioned, a man with a plan is on his way, confirming a seven-year covenant with many. I have a suspicion the Abraham Accords may have a part to play. The prophecies of Psalm 83, Jerimiah 49, Isiah 17, Ezekiel 38, and many others have manifested and are ripe to occur anytime now.

I am now confident October 7, 2023, will be a prophetic date and event in remembrance.

I still maintain that, in combination, these two scriptures could be prophetic if my exegesis is correct.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Matthew 24:34) [May 14, 1948, or the 1967 Six Days War]

The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. (Psalm 90:10) [average of 70-80 years]

We are there if there is any prophetic significance in combining these two verses and doing the simple math.

[Vine Abider]

Thanks for posting that @1to3!  It's a bit of a read, but I think a pretty good summary nonetheless.  The two-state idea was around as far back as the Balfour declaration, over a century ago.

As I've been reviewing various writings regarding the middle east situation for the past week, I couldn't help but think of the Hatfields & McCoys, who were two infamous families who fought each other in the US in the late 1800s.  Tit for tat (actually kidnapping &  murdering each other) just kept escalating for a couple decades, until the higher courts stepped in and certain ones were either hung or imprisoned. And how the whole thing got started was in great dispute, with each side blaming the other.  I suspect there were those in each party, like in the middle east, who were more extreme in their hatred and committed the more heinous acts, which greatly inflamed the situation.

I guess if I were to add a 4th main thing in all of this, it might be the religious aspect of Jews and Muslims. However, a century or so ago, Jews and Muslims were living together in that area, apparently pretty peacefully.  But it certainly is an element to be considered, as everyone knows radical Muslims aren't shy about proclaiming their supposedly divine hatred of the Jews, and committing grossly heinous acts of terror. (although it is also disturbing to read about how radical paramilitary Jews massacred whole villages of Muslims in 1948)

[other one]

 

[1to3]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I am now confident October 7, 2023, will be a prophetic date and event in remembrance.

It's October 7, 2023, a few minutes before 7 a.m. A gang of Hamas fighters in a stolen pickup drives up upon a roadside bomb shelter crammed with maybe two dozen terrified ravers. One shoots off maybe seven bullets into the shelter, when another concocts a different plan. “That one is alive!Mar 20, 2024

 

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

As Vine mentioned, a man with a plan is on his way, confirming a seven-year covenant with many. I have a suspicion the Abraham Accords may have a part to play. The prophecies of Psalm 83, Jerimiah 49, Isiah 17, Ezekiel 38, and many others have manifested and are ripe to occur anytime now.

 Hello, and Yes Denis, its on its way, about the Abraham Accords having a part to play...and many others are becoming as you say " ripe" to occur....

The Abraham Accords are bilateral agreements on Arab–Israeli normalization signed between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and between Israel and Bahrain on September 15, 2020. Wikipedia

 

Israel's initial agreement with the UAE= United Arab Emirates marked the first instance of Israel establishing diplomatic relations with an Arab country since 1994, when the Israel–Jordan peace treaty came into effect. The agreements were named "Abraham Accords" to highlight the common belief of Judaism and Islam in the prophet Abraham.

I know that the Noahide laws have been signed in Washington under executive orders since the 1990ies, these Noahide laws are quite scary. If they come into effect and implemented to their fullness,  Christians will not have it easy.

 

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

The Arabs claim Palestine is theirs, that they were there first, according to their holy book, the Koran, and the sayings of Mohammad, the Hadith. Esau, rather than Jacob, inherited the promised land. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes that is what they believe

But don't they also bring it back t Abraham and his first born son Ishmael  that was born because Sarah allowed her maid servant to produce a son  dues to her own ask of faith that she herself couod bear a son in her older years. That to me was the bid mistake of her lacking in enough faith in God and Abraham listening to her, A bit like the story f Adam and Eve, Eve being tempted and Adam following Eve.

This bad judgment on Sarah part to not fully believe, believe by faith in God that she could have a son of her own in her old age, was what started this whole dilemma.

God is a just God and the sin of lacking in faith in God is a sin that brings on negative consequences.

A promise God mad to Hagar: Gen. 17. [18][18] And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 16:12

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

"In the previous verse, the angel of the Lord--perhaps Christ Himself, given the phrasing used (Genesis 16:10; Genesis 16:13)—began a prophecy or "birth oracle" about the baby Hagar is carrying. It is a boy and she is to call him Ishmael, a name referring to this moment when God has heard and helped her.

The rest of the oracle is less favorable. Even though Ishmael will be the first son born to Abram, he is not the promised child which God has guaranteed. This was not the way God intended to fulfill His vows to Abram. And so, this firstborn boy of Abram will become a wild donkey of a man. He won't be a people person. His hand will be against everyone and everyone will be against him. He will live in hostility to his kinsmen.

Eventually, we will learn that Ishmael's descendants become the Arabic people. These cultures have been at odds with the Jewish people for millennia. The descendants of Ishmael soon take on a bedouin lifestyle, on the fringes of society, committed to their personal freedom above the need to be accepted by others.   (lol aomething I can relate to)

"And he would become a great nation!

Clearly, the child of the "slave" is entitled to the same inheritance as the child of the free women. As very little of the promised land is under the control of the descendants of Israel. Most of the land is controlled by the descendants of Ishmael. "

A fight to control resources

And why does the Israeli government want to control Ukraine???

was not the Ukraine part of Russia. for the longest time?

Could it all be for the control and profit of goods & resources?

The Israel-Hamas war has halted progress on what's known as

the India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor

What was the Silk Road and what was its purpose?

A fight to control resources

 

And why does the Israeli government want to control Ukraine???

was not the Ukraine part of Russia. for the longest time?

Could it all be for the control and profit of goods & resources?

 

 

The Israel-Hamas war has halted progress on what's known as

the India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor —

 

What was the Silk Road and what was its purpose?

 

 

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKS51kbWpucxybsgIRwf-CKaEe6Ex9LehvJ0L9VuKf_Q&s

 

The Silk Road was an ancient trade route that linked the Western world with the Middle East and Asia. It was a major conduit for trade between the Roman Empire and China and later between medieval European kingdoms and China.

 

What is the Silk Road called now?

 

Chinese Belt and Road Initiative

In the 21st century, the name "New Silk Road" is used to describe several large infrastructure projects along many of the historic trade routes; among the best known include the Eurasian Land Bridge and the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

 

 

Today, 60 percent of China's trade with Europe and Africa passes through the UAE (mostly Dubai), as does a large percentage of its trade with ...

 

Jon Alterman testified before the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission about China’s diplomatic engagement with the Middle East and the country’s efforts to shape a new world order.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-and-middle-east

 

What is the trade volume between China and the Middle East today?

 

 

It stands as the primary trading partner for most Middle Eastern nations and has provided substantial investment, infrastructure, and advanced technology. Chinese customs data reveals that from 2017 to 2022, China-Middle East trade almost doubled, growing from $262.5 billion to $507.2 billion.Feb 26, 2024

 

During 2022, China had a large net trade with United Arab Emirates in the exports of Machines ($27.2B), Metals ($5.8B), and Textiles ($4.61B). During 2022, United Arab Emirates had a large net trade with China in the exports of Mineral Products ($23.5B), Machines ($2.63B), and Plastics and Rubbers ($2.5B).

ABRAHAM

Genesis Chapter 16v16

- God told Abraham that he was going to give him

the land he was living in!

Abraham had to claim the land. He had to walk around the land God was giving to him and his descendants. The new Jerusalem will be 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. The entire Arab Continental plate. 

Deuteronomy 11:24 "Every place whereon the sole of your foot shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness, and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the hinder sea shall be your border".

Joshua 1:3 "Moses My servant is dead. Now therefore arise, you and all these people, and cross over the Jordan into the land that I am giving to the children of Israel. 3 I have given you every place where the sole of your foot will tread, just as I promised to Moses. 4 Your territory shall extend from the wilderness and Lebanon to the great River Euphrates—all the land of the Hittites—and west as far as the Great Sea"

 

- And she had to call her child Ishmael!

 

- And he would become a great nation!

Clearly, from The Bible Holy Scripture, the child of the "slave" is entitled to the same inheritance as the child of the free women. As very little of the promised land is under the control of the descendants of Israel. Most of the land is controlled by the descendants of Ishmael. 

 

Just an observation:

 Have you ever noticed that many times it the smaller countries -cities- that make the biggest impact?

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, other one said:

 

Yes, saw that posted on another thread.  Well worth the viewing!  This is a hotbed for the spirit of deception to stir up.

[Neighbor]

14 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I've recently developed something of an apatite to get a better understanding of the middle east situation. 

Hi, Then you might find the many writings and especially videos of Zola Levitt Ministries to contain useful information. I posted one video by Zola Levitt titled "Whose Land is it?"  in the videos general  category.

[Tristen]

18 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

3. Extremist actions took place on both sides: The world is painfully aware of Muslim terrorist activity; However, atrocities/massacres were also carried out by Israeli extremists, pointedly so in 1948 (aka "Nakba Day" - or the catastrophe).

Israel has certainly behaved poorly in some rare instances. But you mainly have to go back 5-or-more decades to find these instances. And even then you find that almost all of these instances were, a) against state policy (e.g. local Jewish authorities being overly aggressive in contravention of the government mandates), and/or b) overwhelmingly (almost exclusively) in response to Arab-initiated aggression.

By contrast, Israel has had to endure constant (near daily) attacks for over seven decades. These have included shootings, stabbings, and bombings inside Israel, as well as rocket fire from Israel's Southern and Northern borders, as well as wars initiated by the Arab states surrounding Israel, as well as a United Nations that routinely condemns Israel for responding to terror, but not the terrorist aggressors.

My concern with the above quote (point 3) is that it could be perceived as spreading the accountability equally between Israel and its aggressors. That would be an astonishingly unjust misrepresentation of the history of the conflict. 

Neither side is completely innocent. Nevertheless, there is an overwhelmingly right side - who reserves the just right to defend its citizens, and an overtly evil side - that considers itself to have an Allah-given right to commit atrocities against Israeli civilians (and Jews in general, and westerners more broadly).