IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN - SINGULAR?

[FreeGrace]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

The addition of a commentary made this lengthy, but it gave me some additional insight. I would like to hear your thoughts.

How many singular unpardonable sins are there? Outright rejection of Christ, blaspheming the Holy Spirit, taking the Mark of the Beast, apostasy, and Hebrews 6:4-6?

In the passage where Jesus mentions the unpardonable sin, the context shows what is was:

Matt 12:31 - Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 12 - Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

The context is:

27 - And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.

28 - But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

So we see that those who witnessed miracles of Jesus and claimed that He was casting out demons by Beelzebub were committing the unpardonable sin.

iow, they were so hardened in their denial of Jesus being the Messiah that even miracles didn't convince them.  They attributed miracles done by the Holy Spirit through Jesus was Satan.  

The unpardonable sin is no longer applicable since no one after Jesus' ministry saw His miracles and attributed them to Satan.

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Scripture inserts conditional clauses with Salvation, using conjunctions (joining) if, and continuing, i.e.

There is only one condition for salvation, clearly stated in Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved:  believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:22)

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (Colossians 1:23)

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (1 John 2:24) [emphasis added]

I have mused over Hebrews 6:4-6 for a long time and its meaning. I have studied it and read many commentaries for personal application. I recently purchased the Pillar commentary series; for me, it is the best-explained commentary.

It seems Hebrews 6:4-6 can be associated with blaspheming the Holy Spirit and apostasy. I surmise this is only applied to the audience being spoken to, the Jews and apostasy reverting to Judaism after they witnessed Jesus in person. The following is a snippet of the summary, and very well explained:

Hebrews 6:6 When such people fall away, it is truly a disaster. The literal meaning of the term that is translated “fall away” (parapesontas) is to fall beside. When it is used figuratively, it means to go astray or to err. The most important background to the author’s usage is found in the prophet Ezekiel. He uses the term for a nation or an individual that is unfaithful to the Lord (14:13; 15:8; 18:24; 20:27; 22:4). In other words, it refers to apostasy.

In the scenario the author has described, it is impossible to renew the apostates and bring them to repentance. The reason why it is impossible is that they are crucifying the Son of God, figuratively speaking. Crucifixion, in addition to being excruciatingly painful, was an extremely shameful way of death. The victims were tortured, made to carry their own cross to the place of execution, nailed naked to the cross, and left to die a slow and agonizing death while any passersby could watch them writhe in pain, hear their wailing, see their despair, and observe the manner in which they faced death. All their dignity was stripped away.¹⁸¹

Those who have enjoyed the gifts of Christ and then proceed to spurn those gifts are exposing Christ to unspeakable shame. They belittle his sacrifice and deny the glory that he has won. Calvin aptly observes, “it would be wholly unbecoming, that God by pardoning apostates should expose his own Son to contempt. They are then wholly unworthy to obtain mercy.”

Excursus: The Impossibility of Repentance

In the history of interpretation, this passage has often been understood as a denial of the opportunity for repentance after serious sins or apostasy. The Montanists (second and third centuries) maintained that serious postbaptismal sins could not be forgiven, and the Novatians (third century) refused to accept the repentance of those who under persecution had denied Christ. They both appealed to this passage in Hebrews as their warrant. The prevalence of their views was one of the reasons why there were some doubts about Hebrews’ place in the canon.¹⁸⁴

However, the author probably intended to make a different point. His concern was to show the danger in which the audience members were about to put themselves if they turned away from Christ. In Christ, God had given them everything he had. If they were capable of walking away from that, they would have passed the point of no return.

What the author describes is not simply a rejection of God. It is a qualified rejection. The hypothetical case is someone who not only rejects God based on what one has heard about him or what one has learned about him. Such a person could be persuaded to change one’s mind if one were able to see for oneself what God had done, if one could sample his gifts, if one could experience his love, if one could genuinely participate in his gift of the Holy Spirit. But a person who has enjoyed all God’s gifts, who knows what God can do, but rejects him—such a person has put oneself outside the possibility of repentance.

That is the seriousness of the audience’s situation. In the Son, God has revealed himself fully. He has pulled out all the stops. He has allowed the audience to be enlightened, to sample the heavenly gift, to become sharers of the Holy Spirit, to taste the sweetness of God’s word as well as the miraculous powers of the world to come. When people who have had such experiences walk away, God does not have another ace to play. He has already played them all.

A comparison with what Jesus refers to as the unforgivable sin may be illuminating. When his opponents accused him of casting out demons by Beelzebul, Jesus exclaimed, “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt 12:32). As Jesus also pointed to his casting out the demons as proof that God’s kingly rule was present (Matt 12:28 parr.), those who witnessed these expulsions would have witnessed God’s decisive, eschatological intervention in this world. They had not only been exposed to a rumor of what Jesus could do or heard a testimony about his divine power. They had seen it and encountered it. They not only refused to accept what others told them about Jesus; they denied what they themselves had seen and heard. Not only had they met the earthly Jesus, who concealed his divine power under the guise of a humble human being; they had witnessed him unleashing the powers of the new creation, the divine power to establish the unopposed rule of God. God’s salvation miraculously emerged in front of their eyes. And they attributed it to the evil one. This kind of willful, stubborn rejection, in the face of compelling evidence to the contrary, puts a person in a position in which one’s sins cannot be forgiven.

Jesus’s words about the unforgivable sin belong in a different context, as they were spoken to his opponents, not to followers who were in danger of leaving. Nevertheless, the main point is comparable: no path to salvation is left for those who are in the privileged position of having experienced God’s salvific power but who reject it.

The flip side of the author’s warning is that God does not force himself on people in such a way that no one can resist him. He uses the compelling force of love. It is possible to spurn this love. Then, the road to salvation is blocked.

The pastoral implication of this interpretation is that the impossibility of repentance is not a prohibition of repentance. It does not mean that certain sins are beyond God’s capacity for forgiveness or that there are certain individuals who are not allowed to come to Christ. The author’s warning does not stand in tension with the central biblical ideas that Jesus accepts anyone who comes to him (Matt 11:28; John 6:37; Rev 22:17) and that he is always ready to forgive any sin, with no exceptions (1 John 1:9; 2:1–2).

No need to comment on every verse and commentary, but none of them speak of losing salvation.

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

However, the seriousness of the warning is that there is only one remedy for sins: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. If that remedy is rejected, there is no other.^[1]

Yes, and that sacrifice has been made on behalf of everyone.  If one "has not believed" in Christ, they will be condemned.  John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 both say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed".  That clearly means those who NEVER believed.

Because once a person HAS believed in Christ for salvation, they are eternally saved.  

John 5:24 - Jesus taught that those who believe (present tense) HAS (present tense) {possesses} eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said:  "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish".

He was teaching from both verses that from the MOMENT of faith in Christ, the person is eternally secure.

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

 

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

 

 

 

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^[1] Grindheim, Sigurd. The Letter to the Hebrews. Edited by D. A. Carson, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2023, pp. 314–17.

 

[other one]

7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The last statement in your post is questionable. Because not all who will worship the beast will be in the denial of Jesus Christ. To deny faith in Jesus Christ and dieing in the denial is the pivotal point of being perished, because the faith in Jesus Christ after death is not counted. The faith out of the body is not counted. If they died in their sins they will remain in their sins for ever. After death definitely every one who did not believe will believe. There also believers who will worship the image of the beast for their own reasons. We always have and will have secret believers. They are always rebels in any situation. Rebellion against let's say the beast may be punishable by the beast or his agents. The people continue to worship in the Temple after the veil was torn twain and while someone else had taken the place of their Lord their God and that one was not Jesus Christ. 

If you take the mark of the beast, you are going to hell.

Rev 13:15-16
15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
ESV

Rev 14:9-11

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
ESV

Those people whose names are written in the Book of Life will not worship the beast and will be killed.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

In the passage where Jesus mentions the unpardonable sin, the context shows what is was:

Matt 12:31 - Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 12 - Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

The context is:

27 - And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.

28 - But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

So we see that those who witnessed miracles of Jesus and claimed that He was casting out demons by Beelzebub were committing the unpardonable sin.

iow, they were so hardened in their denial of Jesus being the Messiah that even miracles didn't convince them.  They attributed miracles done by the Holy Spirit through Jesus was Satan.  

The unpardonable sin is no longer applicable since no one after Jesus' ministry saw His miracles and attributed them to Satan.

There is only one condition for salvation, clearly stated in Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved:  believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

No need to comment on every verse and commentary, but none of them speak of losing salvation.

Yes, and that sacrifice has been made on behalf of everyone.  If one "has not believed" in Christ, they will be condemned.  John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 both say that condemnation is for those who "have not believed".  That clearly means those who NEVER believed.

Because once a person HAS believed in Christ for salvation, they are eternally saved.  

John 5:24 - Jesus taught that those who believe (present tense) HAS (present tense) {possesses} eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said:  "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish".

He was teaching from both verses that from the MOMENT of faith in Christ, the person is eternally secure.

 

Excellent post. Yes, that has also been my personal belief for a long time. Many fine theologians hold that Christians cannot commit that “particular” unpardonable sin as they have not witnessed the miracles of Jesus in the flesh. I was soliciting thoughts on the conditional clauses I quoted and other views on the unforgivable sin.  

I continue to maintain two unpardonable sins that do not have that terminology, namely:

• Not accepting Christ as your Savior before your last heartbeat. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) (2 Corinthians 6:2)
• Taking the mark of the beast. [Revelation 14:9-11]

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Excellent post. Yes, that has also been my personal belief for a long time. Many fine theologians hold that Christians cannot commit that “particular” unpardonable sin as they have not witnessed the miracles of Jesus in the flesh. I was soliciting thoughts on the conditional clauses I quoted and other views on the unforgivable sin.

Thank you very much!

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

 I continue to maintain two unpardonable sins that do not have that terminology, namely:

• Not accepting Christ as your Savior before your last heartbeat. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) (2 Corinthians 6:2)
• Taking the mark of the beast. [Revelation 14:9-11]

Yes, #1 could easily be seen as an unpardonable sin.  

My view on #2 is that by the time the beast issues the command to take the mark, all believers who would take the mark to save their sorry butt from execution will already have been killed by what comes before the beast.  iow, carnal rebellious believers will be "taken home" so that they won't be able to take the mark.  

I know Arminians argue that there will be believers who will take the mark, and Rev 14 shows that those who do will surely end up in the lake of fire.  So my response to that is that God knows the heart of everyone, and therefore knows which of His children WOULD take the mark if available.  So He removes them BEFORE they have the opportunity to do so.  I know from John 5:24 and 10:28 that once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.  Unfortunately, Arminians don't really believe what Jesus said.

Great discussion!

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Thank you very much!

Yes, #1 could easily be seen as an unpardonable sin.  

My view on #2 is that by the time the beast issues the command to take the mark, all believers who would take the mark to save their sorry butt from execution will already have been killed by what comes before the beast.  iow, carnal rebellious believers will be "taken home" so that they won't be able to take the mark.  

I know Arminians argue that there will be believers who will take the mark, and Rev 14 shows that those who do will surely end up in the lake of fire.  So my response to that is that God knows the heart of everyone, and therefore knows which of His children WOULD take the mark if available.  So He removes them BEFORE they have the opportunity to do so.  I know from John 5:24 and 10:28 that once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.  Unfortunately, Arminians don't really believe what Jesus said.

Great discussion!

When this COVID-19 fiasco broke out, they interrupted all previous protocols and had it developed and distributed in less than a year. In my little town, we had traffic jams for several days and a line of cars a mile long to get the jab. Seeing all that reminded me of the mark of the beast.

Whatever this mark turns out to be, the distribution appears to be completed in about the same amount of time, given the context of the time following the abomination that makes desolate.

I will not detail or speculate my thoughts, but there has to be a great incentive and benefit (other than buying and selling or dying) for people to butt lines to get it, as it appears.

These RFID implant chips for animals (what they now contain and could contain), wealthy people, and officials subjected to kidnapping, conditions of employment, etc., are becoming very interesting in light of prophetic scripture.

It now does not leap into imagination anymore to see how all this is coming together with advanced technology, robotics, artificial intelligence, nanotechnology, 5G, the global constellation of satellites via Space X and Elon Musk, etc.

Interesting times!

[Marathoner]

I understand that not coming to Christ places one with dead who are resurrected to be judged (ref. Revelation 20), but bear in mind that not all of the dead are cast into the lake of fire. Only those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire.

That's not ALL of the dead. 

[Neighbor]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:51 PM, Dennis1209 said:

How many singular unpardonable sins are there

There is but one unforgivable sin, not several, singular or otherwise.

[Neighbor]

“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin” — 

 

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“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” 

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, other one said:

If you take the mark of the beast, you are going to hell.

Rev 13:15-16
15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
ESV

Rev 14:9-11

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
ESV

Those people whose names are written in the Book of Life will not worship the beast and will be killed.

Hello @other one greetings to you and thank you for your response but I have to disagree in specific, very specific thing. In the first sentence of your post the word Hell is not a word from the scriptures before the sirculation of some Aglosaxone versions of the Bible after the 14th century. About the wrath of God who is holding it back upon all the disobedient inclusive all according to their level of understanding while they are still alive. Your first  statement it refers to after death judgment of Jesus Christ which is not the issue at hand as it is about people who still are alive and the invitation of the Gospel is still being offered to them and are asked to believe as they are in any situation they are  From the scriptures we know that anyone who calls upon the name of Jesus Christ is Save. We have many scriptures about the book of Life those active in the will of God. And we akso have the book of the redeemed and about those in Jesus Christ who are active in having their garments clean  (referring to spiritual ones) and those of the redeemed who are still having their garments soiled. All of them are inclusive all saved in the same way, their sins are forgiven in the same way. Maybe their names are not written in the active will of Jesus Christ but their names are written in the Book of the redeemed as in Revelation chapter two and three. 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

“Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin” — 

 

--------

 

“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” 

But and But. Does the scriptures say that they are forbidden to believe in Jesus Christ and or if they believe that Jesus Christ will refuse their faith and not accept their faith? That he will say that I have not die for you. Or because that can happen to an unbeliever. As in the situation of the Jews at that time. And the Gospel was preached to all of them. Jesus before he died He told them that they are forgiven and that God will not hold their sin to accused him and crucified him against them, and against their children. Do you have any example of that having happened in the times of the ministry of the disciples? 

Edited May 9 by Your closest friendnt