Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

[First and the Last]

On 6/22/2024 at 12:20 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

@First and the Last

With due respect. 

When did Jesus received the fullness of God? 

Does the word "received" denotes that it was a time when he did not have the fullness of God? 

And what is the fullness of God? 

Did Jesus said anything about that? 

 

I believe that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh from the very beginning of His human existence. The term "received" can be misleading if it implies that there was ever a time when Jesus did not possess the fullness of God. According to Colossians 2:9, "For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily," indicating that Jesus was fully God and fully man from His conception. The fullness of God refers to the complete and undivided presence and nature of God dwelling in Jesus Christ. Throughout His ministry, Jesus affirmed His divine identity, notably in John 14:9 where He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," underscoring that He was the physical embodiment of the invisible God. Therefore, from the moment of His incarnation, Jesus embodied the fullness of God, demonstrating divine authority, wisdom, and power throughout His earthly life.

The word "received" was used to emphasize the incarnation event when God took on human form in Jesus Christ. Jesus was fully God and fully man from the moment of His conception. The term "received" does not imply that there was a period when Jesus lacked divinity; rather, it highlights the momentous act of God manifesting Himself in the flesh. In Luke 1:35, the angel tells Mary, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." This indicates that from the very beginning of His human life, Jesus was imbued with the fullness of God. Using "received" in this context helps communicate the unique nature of the incarnation—that the infinite God chose to dwell bodily in Jesus Christ, beginning with His conception. Thus, "received" signifies the point at which God's divine nature and human nature were united in the person of Jesus. This does not suggest any deficiency in His divinity at any time, but rather the commencement of the God-man's life, fully embodying the divine presence from the outset.

[Your closest friendnt]

20 hours ago, Mr. M said:

What are those scriptures?

Luke 22:37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.

1 Corinthians 15:

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 

27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 

28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all, in all.

In Revelation, He is "the Lamb".

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=the+Lamb&t=KJV#s=s_primary_66_1

Do you have a reliable scripture that says that the Kingship of Jesus will end? 

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do you have a reliable scripture that says that the Kingship of Jesus will end? 

 

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 

You just overlooked it.

[Your closest friendnt]

24 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 

You just overlooked it.

I said scripture! And start with the prophetic. And the witness of the Psalms. 

Edited June 24, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do you have a reliable scripture that says that the Kingship of Jesus will end? 

Not only did the Sonship have a beginning, but it will, in at least one sense, have an ending. This is evident from I Corinthians 15:23-28. In particular, verse 24 says, “Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father.” Verse 28 says, “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.” This passage of Scripture is impossible to explain if one thinks of a “God the Son." But it is easily explained if we realize that “Son of God” refers to a specific role that God temporarily assumed for the purpose of redemption. When the reasons for the Sonship cease to exist, God will cease acting in His role as Son and will return to His original role as Father, Creator, and Ruler of all. Ephesians 5:27 describes this same scene in different terms: “That he [Christ] might present it to himself a glorious church.” Jesus will present the church to Himself! How can this be, in light of I Corinthians 15:24, which describes the Son presenting the kingdom to the Father?

Therefore, when Jesus, the Son, presents the kingdom to the Father, it is understood that Jesus, in His final act as the Son, is essentially presenting the church to Himself in His divine role as God the Father. This underscores the belief in the unity of God’s nature: Jesus’ role as the Son was to accomplish redemption and establish His kingdom, and at the completion of this mission, He acknowledges His divine authority and identity as the eternal God by presenting the redeemed kingdom to Himself as the God the Father. This interpretation harmonizes with the belief that God is one being who manifests Himself in different roles rather than separate persons.

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I said scripture! And start with the prophetic. 

If you do not consider Paul's teaching scripture or prophetic, I have nothing further to add. 

[Your closest friendnt]

29 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

If you do not consider Paul's teaching scripture or prophetic, I have nothing further to add. 

The prophetic in the Psalms. And in the Law. Which says otherwise. Have you not read it. Is it not scripture that all the disciples read and did not spoke against it. Why would you ignore them and the book of Revelation. 

Paul did not say that it was given to him from Jesus Christ. He did not include Jesus Christ as his witness. And he did not include the other disciples as his witness

OR HAVING READ AND HAVING ENDORSE THAT.

DEFINITELY THEY DID NOT PREACH IT. NONE OF THEM. 

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The prophetic in the Psalms.

Would this be an example of what you are looking for?

Psalm 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

What do you think Peter meant when he said we have a more sure word of prophecy?

2 Peter 1:

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; where unto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Here is a major prophesy of Messiah's earthly reign

Where is the eternal nature mentioned?

Isaiah 2:

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.
3 Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

It does not. Peter later states in his second epistle:

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

If there is to be a new heaven and a new earth where Righteousness dwells, what purpose would there be for the Law to go forth from Zion?

Jeremiah 31:34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

He continues:35 Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea, and its waves roar
(The Lord of hosts is His name):

36 If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

And yet, we have a more sure word from

the Revelation given to John.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Isaiah 60:

19 “The sun shall no longer be your light by day,
Nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you;
But the Lord will be to you an everlasting light,
And your God your glory.
20 Your sun shall no longer go down,
Nor shall your moon withdraw itself;
For the Lord will be your everlasting light,
And the days of your mourning shall be ended.
21 Also your people shall all be righteous;
They shall inherit the land forever,
The branch of My planting,
The work of My hands,
That I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand,
And a small one a strong nation.
I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time.”

No need for a Law, no need for a King.

Genesis 8:22 “While the earth remains,
Seed time and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”

The Law, the Prophets and the Psalms

all point to Christ.

Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

1 Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

If you can receive it, this is all I have to say.

If not, this is all I have to say.

If you respond, know this:

this is all I have to say.

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do you have a reliable scripture that says that the Kingship of Jesus will end? 

By the way, the Holy Spirit is our Lord on the earth.

Christ Jesus is our High Priest in the heavens.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

By the way, the Holy Spirit is our Lord on the earth.

Christ Jesus is our High Priest in the heavens.

I do not think so as even your confession that Jesus Christ is your Lord. Is it not Jesus your Lord? 

Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings.  Unto him every knee shall bow down. 

If you do know that or do not have the scriptures I will be glad to provide or perhaps someone else can do it.