Core Essentials of Our One Faith (for fellowshipping with others)?

[Vine Abider]

32 minutes ago, First and the Last said:

Of course I would God's love commands it. It doesn't affect my eternal destiny if they don't believe.

Good!  Do you think it would affect their eternal destiny?

[Vine Abider]

19 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Core today? Love God, love one another.

Amen - distilled down to the simplest terms . . .

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Good!  Do you think it would affect their eternal destiny?

While I believe that the full experience of salvation includes repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, I also recognize that God's grace is vast and His ways are higher than our understanding. Therefore, we should continue to fellowship in love and encourage one another in our spiritual journeys. Ultimately, the judgment of one's eternal destiny is in God's hands, and our role is to share the truth in love, pray for understanding, and maintain unity in the body of Christ.

Outpouring of the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues marked the beginning of the Church. If His disciples received why wouldn't we want it as well. We can't pick and choose what part of the Bible to receive, we either accept it as a whole or not at all.

The crowd at Pentecost asked specifically what to do to be saved. Peter gave the response either by faith we accept it or reject it.

[Sower]

19 hours ago, First and the Last said:

I want to clarify that the emphasis on being baptized in the Holy Spirit is not based on human standards, but on the teachings found in the Bible.

Agreed. And I have read these scriptures and studied them over many years. And my understanding is almost like yours except the timing. Like various other subjects brought up by seemingly earnest believers, I defer to God and ask if there is anything there I am not understanding correctly to please reveal it to me. If I never questioned my or other people's understandings of scripture, I would still be a lost catholic working to be saved.

I think it a stretch when you compared my understanding of belief and gave you an honest answer of not being interested in YOUR understanding/belief, and then comparing it to scripture below;

19 hours ago, First and the Last said:

Refusing to even consider baptism of the Holy Ghost is doing exactly this:

Revelation 22:19, "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life,

You are not the first, nor the hundredth to bring up this topic here. You do not agree with my understanding, and compare my understanding with "take away from the words of the book of this prophecy"  Come on, First,  gimme a break. Because I do not agree with you then I am not agreeing with God? Mercy brother..
Never said I have never considered the baptism of the HS. And believe in it, as the scripture reveals. Not man.

Here below is an interesting study on this topic, and appears to be very thorough. I think you may enjoy it as it seems he agrees with a lot of what you believe.

               https://ichthys.com/mail-Spirit baptism.htm

Thanks First and the Last...

 

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

I think it a stretch when you compared my understanding of belief and gave you an honest answer of not being interested in YOUR understanding/belief, and then comparing it to scripture below;

You are not the first, nor the hundredth to bring up this topic here. You do not agree with my understanding, and compare my understanding with "take away from the words of the book of this prophecy"  Come on, First,  gimme a break. Because I do not agree with you then I am not agreeing with God? Mercy brother..
Never said I have never considered the baptism of the HS. And believe in it, as the scripture reveals. Not man.

I am very sorry my Christian friend, most that posted what you said, are almost always those who believe it is not for today or ended during the Apostolic Age. I will never try and let my preconceived ideas of someone to get in the way. I'll ask pertinent info to determine what they believe. Please forgive my human judgment. May God help us all to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

[Marathoner]

This is where the apostle's instruction resounds:

You know this, my beloved brothers and sisters. Now everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger; for a man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness of God. Therefore, ridding yourselves of all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not just hearers who deceive themselves. (James 1:19-22 NASB)

A "core essential" of my walk is to listen first, suspending judgment until knowledge comes which makes proper judgment possible. That was the Lord's instruction when I asked Him to teach me righteous judgment; not in the manner that comes easily to men (springing from condemnation and the eyes of flesh) but rather, in a manner pleasing to Him. 

Interrogating others to determine if they meet (or fail) your approval is what we ought to avoid. Listen and observe instead, confident in the Lord who makes each one of us stand or fall, and the truth will become evident. Judgment must also be tempered with mercy, something else that the brash and rash scoff at. Years passed while I learned the lessons our Lord set before me regarding judgment which involved being put to the test. Yes, I was required to pass judgment which affects the life and livelihood of others at the charity where I work. 

It wasn't enough to hear the Lord's counsel. He required me to be a doer of His word! Was I afraid of messing up? Yes. Did I mess up? Indeed, more than once... but every opportunity the Lord set before me to judge was fruitful. I learned how to suspend judgment until I was sufficiently informed to judge properly. Forgiveness was a priority. 

We ought to do the same for each other. Receive everyone impartially with love! Remember that a man or woman will reveal the riches of their heart through their own words and deeds. 

Edited June 27, 2024 by Marathoner

[Sower]

1 hour ago, First and the Last said:

I am very sorry my Christian friend, most that posted what you said, are almost always those who believe it is not for today or ended during the Apostolic Age. I will never try and let my preconceived ideas of someone to get in the way. I'll ask pertinent info to determine what they believe. Please forgive my human judgment. May God help us all to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

To ease your concern, First and Last, the Lord has been blessing me these later 77 years beyond my wildest expectations, giving me just enough hardship to grow, and then blow my mind with his mercy, and his amazing grace, and mighty favor. His word is true. You can test him. He likes that. His promises are true, all of them.

I do not know your purpose coming here. That is between you and God. I sense you have experienced something that to you is of fundamental importance to all believers, and want all believers to also experience it like you have. I get it, cool..

I suggest to you that I have. But when I experience the overwhelming presence of God filled with his presence within, it is not like at a Benny Hinn whipped up extravaganza. It is when I do the tiniest obedience, which is the will of God. And I get a burst of a 'well done my son' emotion/confirmation. My worship is not at a worship service, but a daily walk with God's will prompting me, and responding.
Not the hand raising but the feet washing..

Worship; "when we give our deepest affections and highest praise to something"

               "If you love me (God) keep my commandments"

                                      * Simplicity *

If God actually wants me to speak in tongues it's gonna happen. Hasn't yet, as it is a GIFT I (and others) have not received according to scripture. I can not drum it up myself with a 'teacher' chanting over me.  Being baptized with the spirit is readily explained in the link I gave you. Don't read it if you are not solid in your convictions. Again, to me it does not matter (affect my walk). Your/my understanding, the same/different. We should be of one mind, concerning the core essentials of our faith.

I observed you did not answer the direct question given to you up stream concerning those who do not speak in tongues or have not experienced the baptism  of the spirit as to whether you believe they/we are saved believers, but you said only that you will show them love as commanded.

Can a christian, a born again, saved believer by faith alone, indwelt with God's holy  spirit, be saved without speaking in tongues or, never having been 'baptized' in the spirit as you have explained? One of those y/n questions..
No biggie if you don't want to reply.

Again, thanks First and Last...

 

 

 

[First and the Last]

16 minutes ago, Sower said:

Can a christian, a born again, saved believer by faith alone, indwelt with God's holy  spirit, be saved without speaking in tongues or, never having been 'baptized' in the spirit as you have explained?

Salvation is ultimately based on faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. The very first sermon preached by Peter, as recorded in Acts 2, emphasized repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, and the receiving of the Holy Spirit, which was evidenced by speaking in tongues. This initial message marked the beginning of the Church and set a foundational pattern for how believers respond to the gospel message.

While the Bible strongly emphasize the biblical evidence of speaking in tongues as the initial physical evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we also recognize that salvation is not contingent upon this specific sign. Salvation is received by faith in Jesus Christ alone. However, the Bible clearly presents a holistic view of the New Birth experience, which includes repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, while a Christian can be saved without immediately speaking in tongues or receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit as described in Acts 2, it is essential to understand that these experiences are part of God's intended plan for every believer. Ignoring or neglecting these aspects means missing out on the fullness of what God desires to impart to His people, as outlined in His Word. As believers, our role is to faithfully proclaim the entire counsel of God and encourage believers to seek and experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit's empowering presence in their lives, as evidenced in the early Church.

[Vine Abider]

Of course, brothers, we have these two verses in 1 Cor 12:30-31: "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And yet, I am going to show you a far better way."

[First and the Last]

1 Corinthians 13:8, "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away"

Highlights the enduring nature of godly love. This verse contrasts the eternal and unwavering quality of love with the temporary nature of spiritual gifts like prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. These gifts are essential for edifying the church and spreading the gospel, but they are finite and serve their intended roles within the church age.

Scripture also recognize that these gifts will continue until the end of the age when "that which is perfect is come" (1 Corinthians 13:10). This phrase is interpreted as referring to the culmination of God's plan and the return of Christ, (not the finished canon of Scripture) when believers will experience complete understanding and fulfillment in His presence. At that time, prophecies, tongues, and partial knowledge will no longer be needed as they will be surpassed by the perfect knowledge and revelation found in Christ.

In contrast, charity—selfless, sacrificial love modeled after Christ's love—is eternal and foundational to the Christian faith. It persists beyond the temporal expressions of spiritual gifts because it reflects the very nature of God Himself (1 John 4:8). Scripture emphasizes the importance of cultivating this love in all aspects of life, as it transcends the transient nature of gifts and endures throughout eternity. This perspective encourages believers to prioritize love above all else, knowing that it is the enduring mark of a life lived in communion with God and in service to others.

1 Corinthians 13:9, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part" 

Acknowledges the limitations of human understanding and spiritual revelation in relation to the vastness of God's wisdom and knowledge. This verse underscores the belief that while believers receive divine insights and messages through prophetic utterances and spiritual gifts, these revelations are partial and incomplete compared to the fullness of God's truth. This as a reminder of the need for humility and dependency on God's Spirit in interpreting and applying spiritual revelations.

The phrase "we know in part" acknowledges that human knowledge and understanding are finite and subject to our current perspectives and experiences. It emphasizes the ongoing journey of growth and learning in faith, recognizing that our understanding of spiritual truths is progressive and evolving. Similarly, "we prophesy in part" highlights that the prophetic messages received are not exhaustive or complete revelations but are delivered according to God's timing and purpose. Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit intended for edification, exhortation, and comfort within the church community (1 Corinthians 14:3).

1 Corinthians 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

Addresses the diversity of spiritual gifts within the body of Christ, emphasizing that not every believer will have the same role or gift. The church is likened to a body, with each member having a distinct function, and all are necessary for the health and growth of the church. This diversity ensures that the church operates effectively, with apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, those with gifts of healing, and others each contributing uniquely to the mission of the church.

It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost. This experience is a sign of the New Birth and is distinct from the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12.

The passage in 1 Corinthians 12 refers to the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, typically occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.

In summary, while every believer is encouraged to seek and receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as a personal experience, the specific gift of tongues used in church settings for communal edification and requiring interpretation is given according to God’s sovereign will and purpose. This distinction clarifies the different roles of speaking in tongues within the body of Christ, both for individual spiritual growth and for the edification of the church.