What is Dispensationalism?

[Neighbor]

There is a wonderful book, back in print today, titled "Dispensational Truth" Clarence Larkin author, without which I dare say the topic is incompletely discussed at best.

I suspect most have seen at least a few of the charts by Clarence Larkin as they are often posted somewhere within churches on walls; but I don't know that  nearly as many have read much  if any of the text that accompanies his excellent line drawings and charts. There is deeply provoking of the mind and heart text that accompanies his pen's art, those awesome drawings that fascinate the eye. The text provokes the mind, and lifts the heart  to move the tongue in an audible "ah ha" now I get it series of moments that makes one grab their Bible's to then be reading  within them under a new light.

That's;

Dispensational Truth

 or

God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages

 

Clarence Larkin author

 

[Mr. M]

5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Dispensational Truth

 or

God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages

I rarely read outside of the scriptures themselves, and I have not read any books explaining Dispensations of the Ages. One thing I have noted from discussion forums is disagreement about when the so called "Church Age" began.

Not something to cause a church split over, but to keep the thread going, where does the most widely accepted writing place this on the time line? I am not even sure if I am using the correct terminology for this type of discussion, so please forgive my ignorance.

[farouk]

41 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I rarely read outside of the scriptures themselves, and I have not read any books explaining Dispensations of the Ages. One thing I have noted from discussion forums is disagreement about when the so called "Church Age" began.

Not something to cause a church split over, but to keep the thread going, where does the most widely accepted writing place this on the time line? I am not even sure if I am using the correct terminology for this type of discussion, so please forgive my ignorance.

Acts 2, from Pentecost.

It ends at the rapture of the church (1 Cor. 11.26).

[Neighbor]

56 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Not something to cause a church split over, but to keep the thread going, where does the most widely accepted writing place this on the time line? I am not even sure if I am using the correct terminology for this type of discussion, so please forgive my ignorance.

I am using Larkin's page 76 writing  from his book Dispensational Truth as basis for paraphrasing an answer, for the question does not have a one word nor one date answer:

...The church had it's origins in the mind of God "before the foundation of the World", yet  it did not exist until after Christ's ascension. Jesus did take his disciples to  Cesarea, Philippi, and explained to them what was soon coming... ... There could be no foundation for the church until Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. Then Christ became the Rock, and upon Him the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets (New Testament prophets) was laid, and the first layer of the superstructure of 3,000 living stones was laid on the day of Pentecost, and a few days later a second layer of 5,000 was added, and so on down through the centuries the church has been growing as the Holy Temple for the habitation of God through the Holy Spirit.

The church then, had it's origins at Pentecost....

Again; I am paraphrasing from Larkin's writing.

[Stewardofthemystery]

On 6/25/2024 at 4:07 PM, Vine Abider said:

the main teaching dispensationalism bases most everything on is that Israel and the church are viewed as two completely separate entities, and that ultimately Israel will rule upon the earth and the church will rule from the heavens. 

In looking up dispensationalism, the most common definitions I've found describing it are:

1.  God interacts and has dealt with His people in different ways throughout history.  For instance the Jew and the law, then Christians & grace; Therefore there is the Israel/Church differentiation (as mentioned above)

2. A literal interpretation of the bible

3. Belief in a literal return of Christ to set up a thousand year kingdom on earth

4. Rapture of the church prior to the millennial kingdom

Is this your understanding regarding what the basics of dispensationalism are about?

I think it's an error to try and categorize dispensationalism as if to say, "Dispensationalists all believe this or that!"  From what I've seen, there is a wide variety of viewpoints with it, for instance, I don't adhere to #1 above 100% and #2 might seem to need some further clarification/definition (and I also subscribe to some nuances with #4).  So hopefully we can avoid these kinds of hasty generalizations.  From what I've repeatedly seen, Christians can get a little over zealous when discussing this topic.  My hope is that we can have an intelligent, Christian discussion and avoid straying too much into the weeds or letting our flesh rule.  (If things get a tad too sideways, be aware there may be a gentle admonishment to bring us back into focus.)

Note: I know a little of the history of dispensationalism.  My purpose in this thread is not to hash out whether it originated with John Darby or was actually espoused by certain church fathers --> which supposedly would add or subtract from its credibility.  My purpose is to get a better understanding of what dispensationalism is and how others view it, and to examine the merits on its face . . . not about whether it was a recent invention or not - this, to me, is something of a non sequitur. 

BTW - I generally consider this topic as a nonessential or non-core item of the faith. Let's keep this in mind when interacting with other blood bought believers in Christ . . .

That is one error I see in this doctrine because it teaches division, not unity.

There is only One true Israel, there is only One Body of Christ, there is only One Good Olive Tree that is born of God’s Holy Spirit.

The 2 flocks (Jew and Gentile) are made into One.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

He made of the two(Jew and Gentile believers)into “One new man”..

 

Ephesians 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[farouk]

10 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

That is one error I see in this doctrine because it teaches division, not unity.

There is only One true Israel, there is only One Body of Christ, there is only One Good Olive Tree that is born of God’s Holy Spirit.

The 2 flocks (Jew and Gentile) are made into One.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

He made of the two(Jew and Gentile believers)into “One new man”..

 

Ephesians 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

1 Corinthians 10.32 does speak of three different groups of ppl: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

[Mr. M]

52 minutes ago, farouk said:

Acts 2, from Pentecost.

It ends at the rapture of the church (1 Cor. 11.26).

Without an established body, there would not have been

a vessel to receive the Spirit on the day of Pentacost.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, 

they were all with one accord in one place.

 

I would say that "the Great Commission"

could not begin without the Spirit.

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit

has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me

in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

1 Co 11:26 makes no mention of a rapture.

[farouk]

18 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Without an established body, there would not have been

a vessel to receive the Spirit on the day of Pentacost.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, 

they were all with one accord in one place.

 

I would say that "the Great Commission"

could not begin without the Spirit.

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit

has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me

in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

1 Co 11:26 makes no mention of a rapture.

'till He come' (1 Cor. 11.26).

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

1 Corinthians 10.32 does speak of three different groups of ppl: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

Not ALL Jews and Gentiles are born again of the Holy Spirit, so not ALL Jews and Gentiles belong to the body of Christ.

Also, not ALL Israel is OF Israel-Romans 9:6

“For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel”

[Mr. M]

15 minutes ago, farouk said:

'till He come' (1 Cor. 11.26).

I agree, that is what it says. Since there is wide disagreement over

when 'the rapture' occurs, 'till He come' is preferable, and accurate.