I can do whatever and there is No Condemnation in Christ!

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, Truswell said:

Excuse me for asking, but it is best we know, are you OSAS?

This kind of questioning it includes a judging frame of the individuals beliefs rather than a discussion of a specific scripture. 

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, Michael37 said:

We see branches dying on the vine.

It is necessary to abide in Christ in order to bear fruit. I like to ask my fellow-believers "What causes some "branches" of the "Vine" to be fruitless and to be pruned off and cast into the fire?"

If they answer "self-effort" they are correct.

Yes, branches die if they don't abide in the life-giving vine and then are cut off and burned. (And I equate that to the burning in 1 Cor 3:15 where the believer's works are burned, yet they are saved through the fire) 

[Vine Abider]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Christians can still practice the works of the flesh and harden their hearts against repenting. No one is taking them out of the Lord`s hand but themselves.

If it was all a done deal that no one can backslide permently, then why was Paul afraid for his disciples?

Because they would not inherit the reward of the kingdom.  It says nothing of eternal salvation, because that is secure - God's children do not somehow become unborn no matter how bad and belligerent they are.  

There is an overwhelming weight of a multitude of verses and passages in the NT, from the Lord Jesus to Paul to John to Peter, about the unperishable life now within ones who receive the gift of eternal life in Christ.  And then there are many verses about the consequences of not following the Lord, not abiding and practicing sinful things - those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom or the rewards.

Jesus emphasized the name of God as "Father" because Christ's work would constitute us as God's children organically - we are born from His life entering into us.  So when Jesus said, "No one plucks them out of My hand" this means no one - not even we can do this. >>> Think of it this way: A child grows to hate their biological father - they can do everything they want to try and change their identity according to their biological identity . . . but it will never be to any avail.  They can scream at their father, "I hate you, don't want anything to do with you and I am not your child any more!!!" (and perhaps then burn their parents' house down)  Does that change the fact that they are organically born of their parents and are their parents' child?  Of course not.  (but certainly their inheritance may be in peril)

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Tristen said:

The extreme grace that you propose in the OP (with which I wholeheartedly agree) can be compromised by a misunderstanding of the sin issue as: "What God wants versus what I want - and my Christian duty (i.e. to avoid sin) is to choose what God wants over what I want".

The implication of grace under this mindset is that I can do whatever I want with minimal repercussions. Though frowned upon (and not recommended), I am ultimately "free to do what I want any ol' time". Maybe God's wants to rob me of my fun. Sin is thus falsely framed as an expression of liberty.

Whereas I think it more helpful to emphasize a different perspective. Yes, my flesh entices me to sin - but what I really want is to walk in liberty - free from the bondage to my flesh that leads to my corruption and destruction. I want to walk in dominion over my flesh. I want to conquer temptation. I want to be righteous. My true wants therefore align with God's wants for me - i.e. to live an all-conquering life - free from bondage to sin. True freedom is reflected in fulfilling my wants, and not succumbing to the temptations of the flesh.

 

Indeed!  And I would just clarify that the "wanting" to do the things of God is of Him too!  This is "God operating in you both the willing and the working" as per Phil 2:13.  It is us agreeing with the new creation, the new man who we actually are - our true identity in Christ.

If not for Him living and operating in us, we would have nothing, and would therefore have little desire to walk in this freedom He bought for us. 

And I purposely put those phrases in the OP to get people's attention.  When I am made to realize that the high price Christ paid means there really is no condemnation, it is astounding to me!  It is utter freedom!  We are under the all-surpassing love of our Father, who loves His children so much that Jesus says in John 8:36, "So if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!"  And the Galatians were warned of those who would spy out their liberty in Christ and try to bring them into bondage. (see Gal 2:4)  What a freedom!

So as children He has completely freed us from the condemnation of sin, that we would not walk in it any more, and now we are to live by the new life He's put within us.  If we walk according to our new life and identity in Christ, then we will do His will on earth and the works He's prepared for us.  God's children walking in Christ, and doing His works by the Spirit, will then receive rewards and the kingdom inherence at the Bema. 

If we don't walk according to this new life in us, He still loves us as children and will discipline us for our good. But ultimately He leaves it up to us, whether we cooperate with Him and let His life operate in and through us.  The consequences of keeping a lid on our growth in Christ, is substantial, with many warnings in the NT regarding letting this occur. 

At least, this is how I see it . . .

[Vine Abider]

18 hours ago, Truswell said:

Exactly. Apostates. Backsliders.

John 6:60-66 shows many disciples leaving Jesus after they cannot digest some of his more difficult teachings. This was before the Holy Spirit indwelling in believers.

Galatians 1:6 describes believers who are eagerly abandoning Christ and their faith.

1 Timothy 4:1 says many will fall away in the end times, going after the teachings of demons.

2 Peter 3:17 warns us to stay on guard against false teachings that can cause us to fall away from our faith.

Apostasy has always been a problem within the church and will continue into the end days.

Children turn their backs, misbehave and disavow their parents all the time, yet they remain children of their parents according to the DNA the were given when they were born.

[Wayne222]

5 hours ago, Truswell said:

That is true. The Prodigal Son will be welcomed back, but for those who remain outside the fold, the outcome is rather bleak to say the least.

What do you mean outside the fold. All who received Jesus was given power to be sons of God. We are in his fold if we have faith in the son of God . Blessing in his name .

[Marathoner]

There are many unknowns about the disposition of our estate in the age to come in most popular systems of theology. I have yet to examine one that adequately addressess the status of the dead with regard to judgment; how there is more than one connotation for "dead" and death present in scripture, particularly New Testament scripture; and the lack of scriptural support for certain dogmatic declarations unique to peculiar theological systems.

In short, we're faced with the fact that God does whatever He pleases. He shows mercy to whomever He shows mercy, so claims that backsliders (and even so-called apostates) are irredeemable fall short of the truth. Peter denied Christ not once, but three different times. 

That famous passage from Hebrews does not imply what some emphatically insist... if that claim was true, then there are untold numbers of His beloved who were never restored nor brought back into the fold by the Lord.  One must insist that others are liars in order for their peculiar interpretation to be true. 

On the contrary, I've witnessed such a thing happen. There are brothers and sisters on this forum right now who had "fallen away" in the past only to be restored by the Lord later on. I was one myself. There were very religious men, self-assured in their grasp of scripture and knowledge of God's will, who judged me as an irredeemable apostate.

They were utterly wrong, and the Lord did not fault me for believing them in their error. I didn't know any better at that time. 

That is an example of how the Lord judges, and I note the lack of harshness evidenced by so many religious men. God is merciful and swift to forgive. He always has been. 

Because I understand where @Vine Abider is coming from --- he is not a brother who focuses upon reproach nor condemnation --- I'm in general agreement with what he shared here. I heartily support his encouraging exhortation to focus our eyes and heart upon the Lord and rejoice!

Edited July 15, 2024 by Marathoner

[Truswell]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Children turn their backs, misbehave and disavow their parents all the time, yet they remain children of their parents according to the DNA the were given when they were born.

Exactly. And it may not do them any good.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Truswell

[Truswell]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

What do you mean outside the fold. All who received Jesus was given power to be sons of God. We are in his fold if we have faith in the son of God . Blessing in his name .

The prodigal son wasn't ALWAYS safe, contrary to Calvinist teaching.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Truswell

[Truswell]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Children turn their backs, misbehave and disavow their parents all the time, yet they remain children of their parents according to the DNA the were given when they were born.

And are often disinherited.