Christians CAN believe in evolution... if they understand neither

[RV_Wizard]

For most of its history, the church has believed that God created everything that exists ex nihilo (out of nothing). The church affirmed this doctrine based primarily on the opening verse of Scripture: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). God, who eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, purposed to and did create a universe distinct from himself.

Other passages add to the foundation of this belief. For example, the psalmist attributes creation to the word and breath of God: “By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. . . . For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm” (Psalm 33:6, 9). According to a traditional understanding of this passage, God the Father spoke the universe into existence through the Word (God the Son) and by his Breath (God the Holy Spirit). Creation was a mighty act of the triune God.  source

When Moses recorded that God created the universe in six days and rested on the seventh, there was no outrage among the people because the story of creation was already known.  As all history prior to the written word and literacy, it was handed down from father to son so that even before Moses recorded the words, men knew that they were created by their God.  The church was unwavering in its defense on the six day creation until the 19th century, 59 centuries after Adam walked the earth.  Some claim otherwise, but suck claims are easily disproved.  Some say the belief in Genesis as written is a new interpretation, but that is a very obvious lie.

Charles Darwin proposed descent with modification, or natural selection.  To an extent he was right, in that everyone knows the species can adapt to their surroundings, and there are far more varieties of life than were present on the ark.  God's command was to go forth and multiply, which is what happened.  Evolution theory did not end with Darwin, though.  It moved forward to a claim of universal common descent.

Universal common descent is a general descriptive theory concerning the genetic origins of living organisms (though not the ultimate origin of life). The theory specifically postulates that all of the earth's known biota are genealogically related, much in the same way that siblings or cousins are related to one another. Thus, universal common ancestry entails the transformation of one species into another and, consequently, macroevolutionary history and processes involving the origin of higher taxa. Because it is so well supported scientifically, common descent is often called the "fact of evolution" by biologists. For these reasons, proponents of special creation are especially hostile to the macroevolutionary foundation of the biological sciences.  source  In other words, evolution claims natural processes over millions of years beginning with a single common ancestor.

Living things (even ancient organisms like bacteria) are enormously complex. However, all this complexity did not leap fully-formed from the primordial soup. Instead life almost certainly originated in a series of small steps, each building upon the complexity that evolved previously  source

All life on Earth shares a common ancestor, just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother. Through the process of descent with modification, this common ancestor gave rise to the diverse species that we see documented in the fossil record and around us today. Evolution means that we’re all distant cousins: humans and oak trees, hummingbirds and whales.  source

Evolution IS a theory of origins being taught as facts.  It IS a Satanic heresy.  Those who refuse to bow to the god of evolution are called ignorant, science deniers and worse.  Evolution claims the Bible is wrong.  Its proponents claim that much of the Bible is mythology and only the unenlightened believe it.

We do not have two origins.  Either you believe you were created by God or you believe you evolved by chance.  The two are NOT in any way compatible.  Choose which god you serve.  You cannot serve both.

[R. Hartono]

You see the book of Revelation 20 write that this old earth will simply disappear into space dust and God create new Jerusalem in the new heaven and new earth out of empty space. He doesn't need evolution theory to create it all.

[Inquiring Mind]

As Sgt. Shultz always said, “I know nothing.”  Everyone would agree that we cannot comprehend God, His works, or the why of things.  That being said, what then connects our physical world to the supernatural, except our imaginative stories?  And, before someone jumps on me for calling Genesis a myth, I believe it was God-given through that communication bridge.  As such, it’s not something someone figured out, but rather a gift of faith.

Others put their faith (yes, faith) in science for ‘the answer,’ but of course, they will not find it.  Oh, they will find answers, and I’m not knocking science because it has proven beneficial in many ways.  But, when it comes to our origin their stories are myths as well, derived not just from factual research as they like to claim, but also through imagination and theories that connect the dots of vast time frames, and believing things have always been and acted as they do now.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Inquiring Mind

[BeyondET]

12 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

We do not have two origins.  Either you believe you were created by God or you believe you evolved by chance.  The two are NOT in any way compatible.  Choose which god you serve.  You cannot serve both.

Hmm, so how does banning abortion result in 64,000 rape caused pregnancies across America? 24k in Texas alone.

I guess it's allowed and then what does God sit by and let it happen then creates from the horror for a reason? By the way nothing happens by chance not even evolution.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/64-000-pregnancies-caused-by-rape-have-occurred-in-states-with-a-total-abortion-ban-new-study-estimates/

Edited July 29, 2024 by BeyondET

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, BeyondET said:

By the way nothing happens by chance not even evolution.

Factually speaking evolution does not happen, at least in the sense that brochures at the museum claim.  Microevolution (variations within kinds) really does occur at every birth, every time, but that has been conflated into the dumbest explanation of how we got here since the Devil thought it up.  In reality, Micro will never give you what Darwin claimed because it cannot go beyond kinds to be new kinds.

[Tristen]

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution IS a theory of origins being taught as facts

There is a common failure in the secular narrative to distinguish between objective elements of the story (i.e. facts: observations and data) and the subjective elements of the narrative (interpretations of the facts). It is one of several rhetorically deceptive ways by which some proponents of the secular narrative artificially elevate confidence in their story.

 

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

It IS a Satanic heresy

As much as I agree that the secular narrative is untrue, this kind of statement is not a very helpful foundation for rational discourse.

 

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Those who refuse to bow to the god of evolution are called ignorant, science deniers and worse

Many logic fallacies are commonly employed to push the secular narrative of history. However, you also just accused some Christians of adhering to "Satanic heresy". None of this is conducive to a rational conversation.

 

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution claims the Bible is wrong.

It would be more precise to claim that Common Ancestry contradicts the plainest reading of the Biblical account of origins.

Many of the concepts found under the umbrella of "evolution" do not contradict the straight-forward reading of Genesis. For example, Natural Selection, mutations, adaptations, speciations, changes to allele frequencies (etc.) all fit in perfectly well with the young earth creationist narrative.

 

17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Its proponents claim that much of the Bible is mythology and only the unenlightened believe it.

I'd be interested to find out where (in their minds) Genesis stops being symbolic/"mythology" and starts being history.

 

18 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

We do not have two origins.  Either you believe you were created by God or you believe you evolved by chance.  The two are NOT in any way compatible.  Choose which god you serve.  You cannot serve both.

Again, whilst I agree in principle, I don't think the discussion is bettered by pre-emptive, self-declarations of truth, nor insinuations that those who disagree with you are worshipping a different God.

Maybe discussion is not your intent - but then it would be more a blog than a thread?

 

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Hmm, so how does banning abortion result in 64,000 rape caused pregnancies across America?

What does abortion have to do with the subject?  But since you asked, anyone with a basic understanding of the Constitution knows that the Roe V Wade decision extended to the government authority that the Constitution did not.  Secondly, I and most logical people have no problem with "Plan B" in cases of rape.  A pregnancy occurs when the embryo bonds with the uterine wall.  No bonding, no pregnancy.  Want to reduce rape?  Castrate rapists.

God doesn't condone any sin.  All sin has a consequence.  

[RV_Wizard]

8 hours ago, Sparks said:

Factually speaking evolution does not happen,

The fact that speciation can happen to an extent validates that base pairs of all animals could have replenished the earth since the Great Flood.

[RV_Wizard]

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

As much as I agree that the secular narrative is untrue, this kind of statement is not a very helpful foundation for rational discourse.

All Heresy is Satanic because Satan is the father of lies.  As he used Eve to convince Adam to sin, he uses evolution to convince others to glorify the creation and not the Creator.

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

Many of the concepts found under the umbrella of "evolution" do not contradict the straight-forward reading of Genesis.

That's not what is being taught in our schools or pushed by others in this forum.  Yes, some of the elements of evolution are synonymous with natural adaptation.  That's what science actually reveals.  Evolution proponents extrapolate that into a theory of origination, which they elevate to religious status.  Nothing that is KNOWN in biology contradicts the Bible.  Gods said to go forth and multiply, and He provided the mechanisms to do so.  That conforms with both science and the Bible.  It's the insistence of common origins; man from apes; shared ancestry with daffodils; that is contradictory and therefor wrong.

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

I'd be interested to find out where (in their minds) Genesis stops being symbolic/"mythology" and starts being history.

They never answer that question.  In fact, I asked one poster which parts of the Bible he believed in, and he couldn't answer the question despite repeated attempts to get an answer.

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

I don't think the discussion is bettered by pre-emptive, self-declarations of truth, nor insinuations that those who disagree with you are worshipping a different God.

Opinions are subjective, but truth is not.  When an evolution proponent agrees that macro-evolution is a theory only and not the foundation of all science, we can find common ground.  When you try to validate common origin by taking verses out of context and/or deliberately lying about what they say, that's another situation entirely.  Evolution claims man evolved from a common ancestor of the ape.  God said He created man in His image on the same day He created all animal life.  These statements are in direct opposition.

[Sparks]

 

30 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

The fact that speciation can happen to an extent validates that base pairs of all animals could have replenished the earth since the Great Flood.

Yes.  Speciation does occur, but those animals are always born within the same kind.  There are 1400 'species' of bats, but they are all bats and will always remain bats no matter how much time is given, and the two from the Ark became the 1400 types we see today.  Bats will never become 'other creatures.'

What we observe today is the Creationist's Orchard, not Darwin's Tree.  In the Orchard, animals come strictly from their own kinds, just as God said they would.  So, monkeys are not directly related to us; they are their own kind, and their DNA is close only because the creator, God, used a similar parts list (DNA).