Christians CAN believe in evolution... if they understand neither

[The Barbarian]

On 7/29/2024 at 6:01 AM, RV_Wizard said:

A pregnancy occurs when the embryo bonds with the uterine wall.  No bonding, no pregnancy.

What is your evidence for this belief?  At conception, a new, genetically unique individual is produced.  Why is that individual not an individual until he or she (sex is already determined at that point) connects with the uterine wall?

On 7/29/2024 at 6:01 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Want to reduce rape?  Castrate rapists.

Want to keep your livestock from escaping the barn?  Shut the doors after they escape.

 

 

[The Barbarian]

On 7/30/2024 at 10:32 AM, Sparks said:

You don't seem to keep up with your own theory.  It's odd that you have to explain to evolutionists what they believe because they don't seem to keep up with their own definitions. 

The definitions of microevolution (evolution within a species) and macroevolution (evolution of new species) has never been at issue with scientists.   But a lot of people unfamiliar with biology have gotten all sorts of odd definitions they made up to cover.

On 7/30/2024 at 3:15 PM, Sparks said:

For just moment, imagine the possibility that I am correct about the word meaning. 

You flat out got it wrong.   You're not a biologist, so it's no great shame.  But you got it wrong.

On 7/30/2024 at 11:06 AM, Sparks said:

Incidentally, the definition of the evolution of life was something like: The common descent of all life on earth from a single ancestor, via undirected mutation and natural selection.

Well, that's a testable assumption.   Here's what Darwin defined it to be:

"Descent with modification."

After the discovery of genetics it became:
"A change in allele frequencies in a population."

The definition had to be changed because the mechanisms of variation had been found.   The creationists had to come up with  their own definition, because the actual theory was repeatedly verified by evidence.

    In fact, evolutionary theory never claimed common descent.   Darwin himself suggested that God might have created any number of original forms.  (Last sentence of On the Origin of Species)

Genetics has shown that all living things on Earth have a common ancestor.  But evolutionary theory does not, and did not.

As you might remember, Darwin's great discovery was that evolution is not random.   In fact, it looks as if God intended it to work as it does.   Which He did.

 

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Bible says that bats are in the bird kind.   In fact it says they are birds.   So "kind", in Leviticus, is at the level of phylum.    AIG says it's at the level of family.    But humans and other apes are in the family Hominidae, so AIG says humans and other apes are the same kind.

This is the consequence of trying to force scripture to be a science text.

In fact. genetics shows us a tree that precisely matches the first one drawn up by Linnaeus long before Darwin.   As YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise admits, the many,  many series of transitional fossils are "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory."

According to AIG's classification system, monkeys and humans are different kinds, while humans and chimpanzees are the same kind.   (AIG considers "family" to be the limit of "kind."

But those are religious beliefs, not scientific findings.

No, that's wrong.  Geneticists have shown that genetic data indicates common descent.  And we can check that finding by looking at organisms of known descent.

I am sorry, but I don't think you know what you are talking about with evolution theory, but I will ask, what took you long to show up on this thread?

[The Barbarian]

Just now, Sparks said:

I am sorry, but I don't think you know what you are talking about with evolution theory

I had to show you a lot of your misconceptions.    Had to show you what the historic definitions are.

You're not a biologist.    I've spent a lifetime in biology.   I took my first course in evolution in 1967.   

You seem shocked that the AIG definition of "kind" puts humans and chimpanzees in the same kind.    You seem to have been unaware that Leviticus set "kind" at something like phylum or order (depending on the verse).    

So it's not just evolutionary theory you need to catch up on.

4 minutes ago, Sparks said:

but I will ask, what took you long to show up on this thread?

A little birdie told me about it.

Just to clear things up, how do you think new information evolves in a population?    Hint: there are several ways this happens.

[Sparks]

7 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I had to show you a lot of your misconceptions.    Had to show you what the historic definitions are.

You're not a biologist.    I've spent a lifetime in biology.   I took my first course in evolution in 1967.   

You seem shocked that the AIG definition of "kind" puts humans and chimpanzees in the same kind.    You seem to have been unaware that Leviticus set "kind" at something like phylum or order (depending on the verse).    

So it's not just evolutionary theory you need to catch up on.

A little birdie told me about it.

Just to clear things up, how do you think new information evolves in a population?    Hint: there are several ways this happens.

Yeah, I cannot take your arguments seriously, but I am glad to know you are well.  When you didn't immediately show up to plaster your links all over the thread, I was a little worried.

[RV_Wizard]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Geneticists have shown that genetic data indicates common descent. 

You put your trust in geneticists.  I put my faith if the word of God.  

[RV_Wizard]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

What is your evidence for this belief?

Embryos can be frozen, thawed, and implanted in the uterine lining, then become a living person.  Cells can be frozen.  People cannot.  Fertilized eggs that do not imbed in the uterine lining are flushed from the system roughly every 28 days.  No bonding, no baby.  
 

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Shut the doors after they escape.

Most people would think twice about the violent act if it meant losing their equipment.  Besides, it would work wonders in preventing repeat offenders.

[The Barbarian]

Geneticists have shown that genetic data indicates common descent. 

6 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You put your trust in geneticists. 

Well, they do back it up with data.  And we know it works, because they test it on organisms of known descent.

6 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I put my faith if the word of God.  

But you won't believe what He tells you. 

 

[The Barbarian]

10 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

A pregnancy occurs when the embryo bonds with the uterine wall.  No bonding, no pregnancy.

What is your evidence for this belief?  At conception, a new, genetically unique individual is produced.  Why is that individual not an individual until he or she (sex is already determined at that point) connects with the uterine wall?

6 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Embryos can be frozen, thawed, and implanted in the uterine lining, then become a living person. 

They were living persons before they were implanted.   Very small organisms can be frozen and survive.  Adult humans can't be so treated with present technology.   Very little kids often regenerate digits, complete with fingernails.    Adults won't.   Does that mean adults aren't human?   C'mon.

How do you think that God waits until he or she is implanted in the uterine wall to give them a God-given soul?    You differ from the abortionist who says they aren't real people until they exit the birth canal only in degree.

Edited August 1, 2024 by The Barbarian

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Well, they do back it up with data. 

The Bible is validated by Jesus saying For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.  But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus affirmed that the Bible was accurate.  Paul also wrote in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Again, you can only advocate the Bible and evolution if you understand neither.