Considering Suleiman’s restoration of Jerusalem in 1492; does Daniel’s Seventy weeks (Dan.9.24-27); teach a double 70 week prophecy

[Bible nuggets]

Not intellectual at all just a plain reading of the text; I think the confusion is with the A.V. translations, that where probably trying to fit anchor points, the English where at war with the Muslims at that time, so I can see why they wouldn't want them in scripture. 

[Bible nuggets]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:09 AM, Charlie744 said:

Are you saying that “it is closed to the end” means the meaning and interpretation is still unknown?

What verse(s) and why are you having problems with?

Should we look at one verse at a time and unpack it before moving on to the next?

What verse in 9:24-27 is telling you “it is closed up till the end?

Is it the verse in either Chapter 8 or 12? Because neither tell us these prophecies are to be sealed or closed up - not to be understood. They are to be sealed or closed up because: they are now complete, they are written for the Jews BEFORE the coming of their Messiah. “Gabriel, make him understand…” “I have come to make it known to you….”

 

 

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) - But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:10 (KJV) - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

[Bible nuggets]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:28 PM, Progressive Truth said:

Bible Nuggets, 

I would like to make you aware of an issue that you may not of given thought to at this time in your quest to better understand Dan. 9:24-27. It’s very simple, yet when understood can easily put to rest any interpretation claiming a “double application”, regardless of its highly intellectual rendering of the original texts. 

Apocalyptic prophecy has “only one fulfillment”,  which is proven by those events within prophecy that have been fulfilled to date. If this were not true, who then has the authority to tell others that this event or that event has yet another fulfillment, or multiple to come. Such reasoning makes the more sure word of apocalyptic prophecy into a nose of wax.  

I would discourage anyone from going down that road. 

Not intellectual at all just a plain reading of the text; I think the confusion is with the A.V. translations, that where probably trying to fit anchor points, the English where at war with the Muslims at that time, so I can see why they wouldn't want them in scripture. 

[Charlie744]

22 minutes ago, Bible nuggets said:

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) - But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:10 (KJV) - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

So, are you saying that verse 4 is telling us we cannot understand the Book of Daniel? Just parts of it? None of it? 
 

Or, perhaps it might mean it (prophecies) are now complete and they will continue until the end of time? Because the Book of Daniel does focus on two periods of time: primarily the 490 years of the prophecy ending with the cross, and then, in a general way, those events and actor (little horn) who will continue until the end. 
 

There are the “latter days” from Daniel’s point in time- time of the cross, and the true “end times.”  But God is not giving the Jews at the time of the coming Messiah, and all after the cross, the Book of Daniel will not be understood until the end. 
 

Didn’t Jesus in Matthew and Mark tell His disciples about the AOD…. Let him understand…. 

 

[Dave Watchman]

On 8/7/2024 at 3:58 AM, Bible nuggets said:

I learned of a second decree made by Sultan Suleiman in AD 1537-41, to rebuild Jerusalem; found within the book “Witnessing the end” by Dr. Christian Widener; which is still engraved in stone, in Jerusalem today.

So I began to consider what Dr. Widener put forth, that Dan.9.24-27; is teaching a seeming double 70 week prophecy; that does not call for an unfulfilled 70th week, that has to still be fulfilled, as is commonly held. But rather the text has a double application to two decrees, where the first 70 weeks have ran there course, and now we are currently in the final week of the second 70 weeks.

I agree we're in the final heptad of Daniel 9, in the second set of 70 weeks. I saw your note on stackexhange hermenutics. It's disappointing there wasn't some better replies from the wise and learned over there. I think those people are more like seminary school types.

And even though I agree that Dr. Christian is in the right ballpark, I don't think he is correct in his detail. I don't think he's correct about 9:27. Or the stone plaques he travelled to Jerusalem to take pictures of. Or about what is going to happen, and when it is going to happen. I sent him a note with other evidence which shows the timing to be sooner, even to the month. I also think he's a very nice guy. And a hard and enthusiastic worker.

And this is a big subject, the biggest of all time. Scary for most. Some people have been working on this for a very long time. If you bring up something with them that is different, or radical to them, it can make them uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure the time to post the empirical for it on a public forum is past anyway. Just have to sit back and wait as it all plays out. Like Isaac Newton said, let time be the interpreter.

And welcome to the forum.

[Progressive Truth]

2 hours ago, Bible nuggets said:

Not intellectual at all just a plain reading of the text; I think the confusion is with the A.V. translations, that where probably trying to fit anchor points, the English where at war with the Muslims at that time, so I can see why they wouldn't want them in scripture. 

BN, your response here does not address the point I was making, being there can only be one fulfillment of any prophecy should it be proven fulfilled by historical fact and the chronology given within the prophecy.  I understand you to believe their was a actual fulfillment of Dan. 9:24-27 ending in 33/34 AD. , which I agree. 

Do you believe this is a sound hermeneutic, or can you show/prove dual fulfillments of past fulfilled prophecy, making this hermeneutic invalid? 

[Bible nuggets]

4 hours ago, Progressive Truth said:

BN, your response here does not address the point I was making, being there can only be one fulfillment of any prophecy should it be proven fulfilled by historical fact and the chronology given within the prophecy.  I understand you to believe their was a actual fulfillment of Dan. 9:24-27 ending in 33/34 AD. , which I agree. 

Do you believe this is a sound hermeneutic, or can you show/prove dual fulfillments of past fulfilled prophecy, making this hermeneutic invalid? 

Just about every O T prophecy concerning the Lord, is spilt between his first coming and second.  And I am not trying to conform to man's set laws of interpretation,  but rather what saith the scripture. So intill someone can breakdown how and why the translation I put forth in incorrect 

[Bible nuggets]

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, are you saying that verse 4 is telling us we cannot understand the Book of Daniel? Just parts of it? None of it? 
 

Or, perhaps it might mean it (prophecies) are now complete and they will continue until the end of time? Because the Book of Daniel does focus on two periods of time: primarily the 490 years of the prophecy ending with the cross, and then, in a general way, those events and actor (little horn) who will continue until the end. 
 

There are the “latter days” from Daniel’s point in time- time of the cross, and the true “end times.”  But God is not giving the Jews at the time of the coming Messiah, and all after the cross, the Book of Daniel will not be understood until the end. 
 

Didn’t Jesus in Matthew and Mark tell His disciples about the AOD…. Let him understand…. 

 

A plain reading,  clearly says the wicked will not understand,  but the wise will. Knowledge increasing..the two verses above are linked with my translation:

This prophecy H530 (Dan.9.25) to some H4480 will be made understood H7919, and known H3045; that from the building H7919, from the restoration H7725 of the command H1697 that went forth from H4161 the ruler H5057, anointed H4899 of Jerusalem H3389; there shall be weeks H7620: 

[Charlie744]

28 minutes ago, Bible nuggets said:

A plain reading,  clearly says the wicked will not understand,  but the wise will. Knowledge increasing..the two verses above are linked with my translation:

This prophecy H530 (Dan.9.25) to some H4480 will be made understood H7919, and known H3045; that from the building H7919, from the restoration H7725 of the command H1697 that went forth from H4161 the ruler H5057, anointed H4899 of Jerusalem H3389; there shall be weeks H7620: 

Well, I think we can agree, that there is absolutley no consensus on the interpretations of the Book of Daniel. Even among the Academics, the Scholars, the Theologians there can be found many very different interpretations - some futurist, some preterist, some that are simply out of this world.... 

And I don't want to read into your comment above, but are you saying that 925 is speaking of a time outside the 70 weeks of years prophecy? That prophecy began in 457 BC and ended in 33/34 AD. Jesus, arrived to be baptized in the Jordan by John and was "anointed" by His Father on the first day of His ministry  - this was the very first day of the last week in the prohecy. He would travel thoughtout Israel for 3.5 years of the last week before He was rejected by His people and crucified. The 70 years prophecy is completed and the Messiah fulfilled all 6 of His God given missions (9:24) before He returned to His Father. 

[Progressive Truth]

54 minutes ago, Bible nuggets said:

Just about every O T prophecy concerning the Lord, is spilt between his first coming and second.  And I am not trying to conform to man's set laws of interpretation,  but rather what saith the scripture. So intill someone can breakdown how and why the translation I put forth in incorrect 

When I spoke of prophecy, I was thinking apocalyptic, those found in Dan. and Rev., since we are discussing  Dan. 9. Can you demonstrate from any of those which are fulfilled your reasoning above? Sorry for the confusion.