It is easy to say No Abortions, but

[Tristen]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

11 hours ago, Tristen said:

The fact that we can do better in other areas does not justify the murder of children.

 

Of course not. That  is a given, my question  concerns the" then what?". I think it is pretty easy to say  no abortions, but that doesn't face the reality that many a pregnant woman has a serious situation she is facing and needs help. The woman  might be married or single, abused or not, she still needs help. She needs a support system.

I 100% agree.

However, your question frames the issue as a dichotomy - implying that the lack of "a support system" somehow mitigates the evil of murdering a child in the womb. I think this framing undermines your point.

 

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

So for the person that says no abortion the question does become then what? Will they  be involved or at least supportive of the individuals and groups that are providing an alternative to abortion, that do give housing aid, security from abuse, prenatal care, and ongoing support for mother, father, and the child?

Our protestation that "abortion is wrong" is perfectly valid - regardless of any "support system", and regardless of our personal participation in any "support system".

So yes, setting aside for a moment the rank immorality of so-called "abortion", the church could do a better job in providing better "support" to pregnant mothers in vulnerable situations.

 

[Neighbor]

 

What might Christians (Not "the church") be doing individually and collectively regardless of church body affiliation to be helping those in dire need today in their own community.

I suggest saying abortion is wrong comes with an obligation to be willing to help those  with fear and needs regarding their pregnancy.

Of course abortion is wrong. Now what?

[Tristen]

On 8/12/2024 at 2:18 AM, Neighbor said:

I suggest saying abortion is wrong comes with an obligation to be willing to help those  with fear and needs regarding their pregnancy.

Of course abortion is wrong. Now what?

I don't think being truthful about the nature of a particular sin comes with any further obligations with regards to that particular sin.

Informing someone that particular behaviors are sins in God's eyes does not, of itself, obligate any further action on the part of the "individual" Christian.

Now, God may place support for struggling pregnant women on the heart of a Christian "individual" - as a matter of love, and kindness, and compassion, and mercy. However, another Christian "individual" might be called to apply their resources to a different expression of these spiritual fruits (e.g. to feed those in need).

Gift projection (thinking every Christian should participate in what God has placed on our heart) can very quickly deteriorate into legalism and self-righteous judgement.

We can tell people that homosexuality, and murder, and adultery, and lying, and idolatry, and theft etc. are sins without us being "obligated" to provide an escape route for the particular sin being discussed. Likewise, we can tell people that murdering an unborn child is a sin without being "obligated" to individually support a solution.

Telling people the truth about sin is good. Helping people in need is good. However, telling people the truth about a particular sin does not obligate your resources to that specific cause. For example, I can tell people homosexual practice is sin, even though my resources are dedicated to providing for "orphans and widows".

 

 

 

 

[Coruscating]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:55 PM, Neighbor said:

support system for the pregnant woman, who provides food and shelter for mother and child

 I agree with you.

As christians, to be against abortion is not a political view, it is the start of an action that comes from a compassionate heart.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Tristen said:

I don't think being truthful about the nature of a particular sin comes with any further obligations with regards to that particular sin.

 

I contend otherwise.

James 2:16

Faith Without Works Is Dead

 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?  If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,  and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?  Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.  You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!  But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

[Tristen]

46 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

 

I contend otherwise.

James 2:16

Faith Without Works Is Dead

 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?  If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,  and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?  Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.  You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!  But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

The provided scripture in no way restricts our right to inform about sin unless we are participating somehow in a ministry dealing directly with the specific sin in question. And therefore, doesn't support your argument.

You have misapplied this passage of scripture.

James simply says that a living faith will be reflected in good works. That has nothing to do with our right to declare God's truth on a particular sin - regardless of any direct involvement in any action to curtail that particular sin.

The murder of a child in the womb is a heinous sin. That truth stands on its own merits - regardless of who says it, and regardless of whether or not the declarant is willing or able to provide help to those involved.

 

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

2 hours ago, Tristen said:

I don't think being truthful about the nature of a particular sin comes with any further obligations with regards to that particular sin.

 

I contend otherwise.

James 2:16

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Cool, Neighbor. So tell us how you yourself have been involved in supporting food and shelter for the mother and the baby. How can others be involved and help as you have said. Where can we go to be involved and get others motivated? I would rather encourage than lay a guilt trip. Do you have any resources or info to be involved that you are using.

Thanks Neighbor...

[In the Clouds]

Murder is a grievous sin.  And sin keeps one in bondage.  I don't know the statistics; but, I am guessing that most abortions are performed on those who elect that method of trying to get rid of that bondage.  An uncontrolled action is misuse of freewill and in this case is sin.  The burden and bondage of it is not going to go away but will be compounded unless the heart is changed and the sinner repents and comes to Jesus.  That may be next to impossible for some; but, that's the truth of the matter.

[In the Clouds]

I was not allowed the gift of children and wanted very much to be a mother.  It's heartbreaking to know that life can be thrown away.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

I would rather encourage than lay a guilt trip. Do you have any resources or info to be involved that you are using.

Hi, I am not attempting to lay a guilt trip. I am asking a serious question hoping to hear something that may  give me new insight, guidance, and encouragement. 

What have I done? I fear to say in that to say is to receive my reward I suppose.

Let me put it this way: God over the past four and a half decades has given me challenge as well as opportunity to be of help, either helping a ministry or helping individuals directly. More often than not it involved  a time of prayer after seeing a need and a joint confirmation  by and with the wife of my youth my helpmate of 46 years till death did part us ( I am now twice blessed in that regard).

I am presently very interested to see how I might be physically able to get involved yet again in such ministries as two that are associated with but not part of the local body  of Christ that I am led to associate with when I can.

One being housing for abused women, often the pregnant woman alone in the world that is in need and was  seeking  help while thinking abortion had to be her answer to her pregnancy. And second,  another ministry that provides healthcare  for pregnant women as an alternative to abortion  including all the prenatal care they may need.

I am also interested in housing and provisions for the wandering homeless of today.

I tend to end up  in  a situations of providing helps. It may be helping to get someone else started in their own ministry in these areas. One to this day  runs a few homes where they hide out abused women  and help them with their young babies.

I personally have walked the woods behind the housing "projects" literally the jungle woods to find a couple living in a cardboard refrigerator box that were in need for their baby, while I was assisting my first wife at her number one love a ministry that counseled women that were pregnant and that provided  prenatal care , cribs, baby formulas, foods, bedding, etc.

We together came close to buying that non profit at one time but were led elsewhere into helping   family establish a  Christian school situated at a place  to help the poor that could not generally afford private Christian education. That one took much family involvement and quite a bit of financial  stretching too. It to this day  tends to the education of 350 students.

What else can I share without getting too involved in what God leads me into; Hmmm, oh just a little thing, but one that I am so glad God provided us opportunity one day, as it blessed my wife and myself to have been led to the need:

I was at our newly constructed apartments when  our flats concrete workers came up in their beat up rig  to say hello and ask if I had more work to be done. I asked how is it going? And they broke down, saying it is hard, the economy is so bad, etc.  The baby has no food, or diapers, we have nothing to eat right now.

 I had nothing on me in the way of money, as we were pretty well broke too. But I drove on home  some 48 miles, talked to my wife saying to her  I think we need pray,  our flat's workers are in trouble. She prayed and pulled out what we could to  go buy food diapers etc, and I drove back 48 miles to their little apartment and left off the packages at their door.  

God has led us at the right time and place over the many decades it seems. Some so awesome I just have need to keep it to myself.

I don't want to miss an opportunity simply because I am now aged. Thing is I have to concede I am  more than a bit busted up and getting slower of mind too. And so I do ask  in many a situation "So what now?" What will you have of your friends and servants Lord? What will you have of this one? Are we good,- is it good between you and me? Am I missing something Lord?