Theistic Evolution

[Sparks]

52 minutes ago, Starise said:

That's my point really as to @Sparks questioning. The scriptures focus on what was done to support life on earth and the immediate universe as it pertains to earth. Why doesn't the creation account begin with a narrative of the making of the water ball? 

The six day narrative begins with the water ball. Not before. Obviously some time was needed to make the water ball and whatever else was there. I see it as in the beginning God made the heavens and the earth, THEN the six day time begins on the water ball. At the beginning of the six days, God also arranged some heavenly bodies and fired up the sun to sustain life on earth. As it pertains to us here on earth this was all the narrative we needed. It would be like a mother saying she had all  brothers and sisters as a general statement. They could have been many years apart but she still had all of them. To God time is of no consequence.

This really is the Gap Theory.  Between these two sentences, supposedly trillions of years happened, and all kinds of history. 

Genesis 1:1-2 (NLT) 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

It really says, God created the Heaven and the Earth (FULL STOP), then it starts tell you how He went about it all in the second sentence.  He didn't create the Earth in sentence one, and then create the Earth again in sentence two.  He didn't recycle an Earth that was full and plush, and is now just water. 

Sentence one is practically a subject line, because from sentence two on, it describes how it was all done.

As for the water, don't think of a guy with a garden hose filling a lake.  Think of God making it appear instantly, as only He can.

But I will ask, you say it took time to get all that Earth sized water together. 

How long do you estimate it took? 

[Starise]

36 minutes ago, Sparks said:

This really is the Gap Theory.  Between these two sentences, supposedly trillions of years happened, and all kinds of history. 

Genesis 1:1-2 (NLT) 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

It really says, God created the Heaven and the Earth (FULL STOP), then it starts tell you how He went about it all in the second sentence.  He didn't create the Earth in sentence one, and then create the Earth again in sentence two.  He didn't recycle an Earth that was full and plush, and is now just water. 

Sentence one is practically a subject line, because from sentence two on, it describes how it was all done.

As for the water, don't think of a guy with a garden hose filling a lake.  Think of God making it appear instantly, as only He can.

But I will ask, you say it took time to get all that Earth sized water together. 

How long do you estimate it took? 

Let's go back to one inescapable point. The six day time clock started with the earth.What day was " in the beginning"? I'm not expecting an answer to that. It's just a thought. 

And no it isn't the gap theory because I haven't said there was anything created of a biological nature before that. Nothing evolved from a single celled organism into a myriad of different species. That's essentially the TE gap theory. They will say apes came along and men developed from them.

 

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Let's go back to one inescapable point. The six day time clock started with the earth.What day was " in the beginning"? I'm not expecting an answer to that. It's just a thought.

When it began is the instant God started building everything, so Day 1. 

To my human mind, which is infinitely limited to God's, I would imagine He started with the invention of Time, Space, and Matter, (but being God He might not even have needed that) and then He rolled out everything He said He did, on Day 1, which was a 24 hour day.  Then moved to day 2.

If you don't invent time, when would you put 'things?'  If you don't invent space, where would you put 'things?'  If you don't invent matter, what would there be to put?  

You hint at things already existing which I have asked you to clarify, all of which seems to be some variant of the Gap Theory.  We can lose the name, but what I think I am hearing still seems to have a familiar ring to it that is 'gappish.'  That, and the concern of time.

Do you believe that when the Spirit of God hovered over the waters, those waters were the remains of an older Earth?  Do you believe in a Pre-Adam world existing before this one? 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

Do you believe that when the Spirit of God hovered over the waters, those waters were the remains of an older Earth?  Do you believe in a Pre-Adam world existing before this one? 

No and no. Never have, never will.

[enoob57]

11 hours ago, Diamond said:

the Bible is subjective

written material is as objective as it gets ...

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, Starise said:

The six day time clock started with the earth. What day was " in the beginning"? I'm not expecting an answer to that. It's just a thought. 

The best explanation of Genesis comes in Exodus.  When God wrote that He created the heavens and the earth in six days, there is no ambiguity in that statement.  Everything else in the Bible was recorded by men who were inspired by God.  The ten commandments were written by God.

Neither T.E's, Gap Theory proponents or evolution devotee's can explain their way around God's open declaration.  Exodus 20:11 is God's word written by God. 

[Diamond]

19 hours ago, Sparks said:

science is not an ice cream flavor preference.

Perhaps you need to look up objective and subjective. You seem to have them backwards. Objective means everyone agrees on the same flavor of ice cream. Or like soup of the day where their is no choice and everyone gets the same. 

[Diamond]

15 hours ago, Sparks said:

When it began is the instant God started building everything, so Day 1.

There is no first day until you have a second day. Just like name brand items you can only make a copy of the original. You do not make a copy of a copy because you would multiply your errors.  You have to have a pattern that they are now calling a paradigm. 

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

There is no first day until you have a second day. Just like name brand items you can only make a copy of the original. You do not make a copy of a copy because you would multiply your errors.  You have to have a pattern that they are now calling a paradigm. 

God is pretty good at keeping time.  He invented it.  If He says a day is a day, you can count on it.

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

Perhaps you need to look up objective and subjective. You seem to have them backwards. Objective means everyone agrees on the same flavor of ice cream. Or like soup of the day where their is no choice and everyone gets the same. 

I was not the one replying to your comment about the Bible being subjective, but maybe you need to take your own advice and look up the terms, for yourself.  I was just agreeing with the person who did comment.

I was mentioning your choice of relativism where you were saying that everything is relative.  Good and evil are not relative, but if you think they are, you wouldn't mind if a thief stole your stereo because the thief thought it was an act of good, even if you thought the act might have leaned more towards evil.