The Problem Of Swaggering

[Michael37]

The question of how to deal with a person in your congregation who swaggers, arises occasionally in the body of Christ, and the answer is the same as it is for every problem; seek first the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness.

The swaggering church member may be very busy in the flock, have a lot of responsibility, and be a named leader with authority to be in charge of various aspects of organisation and administration.

Seeking God's Kingdom first prevents the swaggering situation from becoming an all consuming aggravation, which is what the enemy wants it to become. In a large assembly it is not unusual for power-couples to command a following and be part of the inner circle, but this can lead to those on the periphery feeling pushed around and diminished if they do not pander to egos and expectations, and as a result meet with hostility instead of hospitality.

Why am I raising this subject? Because the Holy Spirit has been speaking to me through some Scriptures as follows:

1Co 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1Co 11:18  For first of all I hear that when you come together in the church, there are schisms among you. And in part I believe it.

1Co 12:25  That there might be no schism in the body: but the members might be mutually careful one for another.

Therefore, rather than focus on a swaggering Head Deacon and be drawn into a demonically staged controversy, the joy of being in the body of Christ, which God has "tempered together" (1 Cor 12:24), should be maintained, along with the other aspects of the Fruit of the Spirit. 

This may resonate with some, but if not, we move on to other green pastures and further still waters.

[Ray12614]

Hi Michael: I honestly don't know what swaggering is, and although I could go to dictionary, I might miss the European cultural meaning so could you forgive my lack of understanding and explain?  I am sure it is simple since you didn't elaborate, but, just want to be sure I understand correctly.

Thanks!

[NConly]

Matt 4:

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt 5:

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

With a little reason one can figure this out. God never gave this type of instruction to Israel before Jesus came to earth why well if one plucks his on eye out one will likely die. Same with one of the hands cut off. God or Jesus would not have given this type of instruction to any one person. Pay attention God did not say have a trained medic cut out your eye. Also the physical body is one person doing this one would surely die. However take in to consideration Matt 4:17 and later Matt 5:29-30 can easily be attributed to the "body of Christ as it has many members made of persons and loosing one person from the body of Christ does not kill the body.

[Mama Etna]

Years ago when I worked with a children's ministry program I was the victim of a swaggerer, a man who felt he had the gift of prophesy and could read people's minds.  He thought he could read me and said a whole lot of stuff about me that just was not true.  The elder above him called him on the carpet after that.  His pride ended up making him look foolish to me and my friends.  He had done it to my friends too.

I will be reading this thread with interest.

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The question of how to deal with a person in your congregation who swaggers, arises occasionally in the body of Christ, and the answer is the same as it is for every problem; seek first the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness.

The swaggering church member may be very busy in the flock, have a lot of responsibility, and be a named leader with authority to be in charge of various aspects of organisation and administration.

Seeking God's Kingdom first prevents the swaggering situation from becoming an all consuming aggravation, which is what the enemy wants it to become. In a large assembly it is not unusual for power-couples to command a following and be part of the inner circle, but this can lead to those on the periphery feeling pushed around and diminished if they do not pander to egos and expectations, and as a result meet with hostility instead of hospitality.

Reminded me of someone who was said to "love having the preeminence".

His name was Diotrephes and he is mentioned in 3 John 1:9: 

I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, 

who loves to have the preeminence among them, received us not.

I was fascinated to find this expression is formed from one 

compound word: philoproteuo.  Thayers:

φιλοπρωτεύω; (φιλόπρωτος, fond of being first, striving after the first place; from φίλος and πρῶτος: Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 2, 32; Plutarch (Alcib. 2, 2); mor., p. 471 e. (i. e. de tranquil. an. 12; p. 793 e. i. e. an seni sit etc. 18, 8)); to aspire after pre-eminence, to desire to be first: 3 John 1:9. (Several times in ecclesiastical writings.)

Notice he mentions that the word is used several times in early writings.

Sounds like the fellowships had to handle this often!

Isn't this an example of when to use Matthew 18 methods to avoid the public

drama, if possible? As to educating deacons and elders on the importance

of NOT being 'philoproteuo', Jesus taught on this often, and is summarized

by "the last shall be first, and the first shall be last".

"The swaggering disciples"

Mark 9:

33 Then He came to Capernaum. And when He was in the house He asked them, 

“What was it you disputed among yourselves on the road?” 

34 But they kept silent, for on the road they had disputed among

themselves who would be the greatest. 

35 And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, 

“If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.”

A good lesson for all. A speaker who taught on leadership encouraged

everyone in our congregation to study leadership, as understanding the

godly principles involved makes everyone better "followers", and better

prepared to step up in the future. I found this advice sound.

Possible recommendation? Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.

[In the Clouds]

Isn't this one of the lessons to be learned from Paul especially in Galatians?  Come to the Lord in faith and humility.  Look to the Lord and not to man.  Some power leaders lose their humility and allow themselves to become puffed up.  We are to be servants of the Lord putting others first and ourselves last. 

[missmuffet]

Isn't that a pride issue?

[AnOrangeCat]

7 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Reminded me of someone who was said to "love having the preeminence".

I think this is the heart of it. Some people really like being perceived as powerful, intelligent, or important and pursue it to the expense of brothers and sisters in Christ. Their motives are no longer pure. In a recent thread, and something that comes up sometimes in Vine Abider's topics, the prospect of believers losing their rewards come up. This is very much one behavior that springs to my mind when Paul talks about some whose rewards are burned up in I Corinthians 3:15.

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The question of how to deal with a person in your congregation who swaggers, arises occasionally in the body of Christ, and the answer is the same as it is for every problem; seek first the Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness.

I mostly agree. I'm inclined to let a lot of things slide, particularly in the case of something that pops up as an occasional thing. Everyone has bad days and makes mistakes. Surely I've rubbed people the wrong way before, intentionally or otherwise. Be mad about it a little while, then it just gets filed into some corner of your brain to collect dust and eventually be forgotten.

I will say this, though. Paul spoke strongly against causing fellow believers to stumble. Swaggering can do this. Jesus also gave us a protocol for dealing with offenses in Matthew 18:15-17 that slowly escalates from approaching privately to going with two or three witnesses to bringing the matter before the church, and finally expulsion if they don't want to heed the church. In light of that I'd say it's important for individual groups of believers to recognize those whose behaviors are detrimental to the body as a whole and deal with that if they need to.

[Tristen]

I am also someone who has not previously heard the term "swaggering" in this context. 

I know the term swagger - as in, to walk with a confident posture.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, Tristen said:

I am also someone who has not previously heard the term "swaggering" in this context. 

I know the term swagger - as in, to walk with a confident posture.

It is not biblical. Swagger is to walk in an arrogant way or be aggressive.