Mature Universe Theory

[RV_Wizard]

The Mature Universe Theory (MUT), also called the Mature Earth View, or Mature Creation, asserts that God created Ex-Nihilo a young universe (YEC) approximately 6,000-10,000, years ago with "actual age." It observes that God created the universe with integrity in six (6) literal 24-hour Days with some age or maturity.
When properly understood, MUT explains why there "may be" things with actual age, older than 6,000-10,000 years old. God made the universe with wisdom (Prov. 8:23-27), which includes making things with maturity, not just with the appearance of age, but real actual age. When God created, he not only created the sun, moon, stars, plants, tree, animals, etc., but all the complex intersecting processes functionally complete right from the start. In other words, they were able to fulfill the purpose for which they were created in the Day they were created. God's evaluation of his own work was that his completed creation was "very good" (Gen. 1:31). God spoke and a mature universe happened (Psa. 33:6-9).

MUT is clearly the teaching of Scripture.  source

Many, MANY years before I ever heard of a thing called Mature Universe Theory I came to the conclusion that a mature creation was absolutely described in the first chapters of Genesis.  There is no mention of ANYTHING being young.  All things were created in their mature state, including the earth itself which already contained all of the elements man would need for his entire existence.

[The Barbarian]

Problem with this (one of many) is distant supernovas.    They are the moment when a star blows itself out of existence.    But the light from them would have to be created within a few thousand light years from Earth to get here now.    

So in the MUT doctrine (not a theory, since there's no evidence supporting it) God is showing us evidence for a star that never existed.    Since God is not dishonest, this belief is contrary to Christian faith, as well as contrary to all evidence.

Q.E.D.

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by The Barbarian

[RV_Wizard]

20 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Problem with this (one of many) is distant supernovas.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  On day four, all the stars visible from earth were visible in an instant.  With science this is not possible.  With God, all things are possible.  The universe, like the earth, like man, was created in its mature state.  Not all will believe.  Many will be fooled into thinking hat the laws which govern the creation had authority over the Creator.  As Paul writes, ...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

God told us how He created the world.  Like the rest of His word, we can accept it or reject it.  Neither has any bearing on its validity.  God's word is truth, whether you believe it or not.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

On day four, all the stars visible from earth were visible in an instant. 

That is your addition to the Bible.   But as you see, the light from those distant supernovae would have shown us stars that never existed.   So we can either believe that God does not lie, or we can believe your addition to His word.

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

God told us how He created the world. 

He told us that He did.   But He didn't say how.   You can accept it as it is, or you can add things to it like the above.

Why not just accept it as it is?
 

[RV_Wizard]

18 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

So we can either believe that God does not lie, or we can believe your addition to His word.

We have the choice to accept or reject His word.  You reject it.  You reject the creation, you reject the flood, you reject Adam and Eve, the fall of man, and most of Genesis.  Christianity teaches that these events were true historical events.  That’s the difference.  I believe in the Bible as written.  You very clearly do not.

[RootedDude]

GOD, is nothing. God exist where nothing is. Because from nothing God created all we can survey as Geneses clearly defines.
Our Human brains have a hard time with this, however. It is equally a miracle to us is the God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
God knows what was, what is, and what will be.  
All the above alone slightly defines God greatness. 

As was mentioned about Stars exploding etc. Is that this is science, not Biblical.
By this statement:

18 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

That is your addition to the Bible.   But as you see, the light from those distant supernovae would have shown us stars that never existed.   So we can either believe that God does not lie, or we can believe your addition to His word.

He told us that He did.   But He didn't say how.   You can accept it as it is, or you can add things to it like the above.

Why not just accept it as it is?
 

God is everything, as in everything exists because of him. 
God lives outside of time this we know as fact. So when and how a star exist is a non-issue.
To put in perspective.
As God, there is no Matter, No Space, No Time. he created these things. 
Time is relevant to us, not to God. So yes even Old stars that are millions, billions of years old 
are only as Old as when God created everything. Even if that appears far less then the existence of a star.
God is not logical, as God created Logic. 
The Bible so plainly says, In the Beginning....................... and everything comes after that.
In reality, some  Quantum Theories.  Support the Hypothesis of a creator. I think it interesting that Science
does many time explain who things can exist, before or after they exist.

I like it simple.  WHAT  I see, smell, her, taste, observe was not there before.
Therefore it all existed after, even very old stars. We have to remember time only matters to us.
Not God. This is proven, because God Created some from nothing at the very first spark of the creation of time,
by stating, In The Beginning sets a base for Time to now exist.


 

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

We have the choice to accept or reject His word.

So why not just set your pride aside, and accept it his way?

I believe the Bible as written.    And you will not.    Give it all to God, let Him be God, and you will find peace with Him and yourself.

 

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I believe the Bible as written

We all know that’s not the case.  It you had a Time Machine and you looked into the evening sky on day four, the Bible says you would see stars, but the previous evening you would see nothing.  You claim the universe came before the earth, and the light from the stars would take many years to reach earth.  The Bible says that God formed man from the dust of the earth.  You claim man evolved.  The Bible says there was no death before Adam sinned.  You claim millions of years of death before man.  Nothing you post agrees with the Bible, only your twisted distortions.

[The Barbarian]

You're just getting all worked up again, and recycling arguments you lost before.    Why not just set your pride aside, and accept scripture as it is?

Instead of paraphrasing or redefining His word, why not just accept it and learn from it?

 

[SwordMaster]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:31 PM, The Barbarian said:

Problem with this (one of many) is distant supernovas...   

 

Actually, there is no problem with what Scripture clearly teaches, the problem is when men...arrogant men at that...who cannot actually go out into space to witness anything, believe that they can say what is and what is not simply by looking through a giant telescope, regardless of what kind they use. They tell us in their arrogance that gravity holds all of the planets, stars, and galaxies in place...nonsense pure and simple. 

Exactly how much gravity does the earth exert upon the moon in order to keep it from floating off into space? And...the size of the planets in our solar system, exactly how does the sun produce the right amount of gravity in order to hold planets of differing sizes and keep them in their orbits without pulling any of them closer or releasing them further away from itself? When we stop to actually engage our brains and think about what we are told by people who are really only giving us their best guesses, we can see what nonsense they are actually selling to the public. 

Scripture says that God holds all things together by the word of His power...not gravity. And this is only one small example that demonstrates the utter futility of what men call scientific facts ("knowledge falsely so called"). Scripture, and the facts of nature, demonstrate a young earth, not an earth (or universe, for that matter) that is billions of years old. God is true, and every man to be held as a liar, when it comes to His Word.

Blessings!