Undo emphasis on the Trellis (supporting structure) & not enough on the Vine (Christ & branches)?

[Vine Abider]

A brother loaned me a book that I just started to read called, "The Trellis and the Vine" by Marshall & Payne. The premise of the book is fascinating to me, in that it conveys that the church is typified by a vine, and vines need a trellis to support them (at least fruit-bearing vines like grapes).  The trellis typifies the supporting structures like the leadership, administrations, property maintenance, and running other supporting programs.  The authors present their opinion that the structure of the church can, and very often does, become a big distraction . . . in other words, the "trellis work" pretty much takes over.

A grape vine needs a trellis structure to keep it off the ground and give it good spacing, in order to be healthy. We can have a very fancy looking trellis or a basic one, but the main thing is that the trellis supports the vine growth effectively, and should mostly be in the background.  In fact, the appearance of the trellis means little, as the main thing is the vine and its health/proper growth to bear fruit.  And if the vine is growing well, often the trellis isn't hardly visible, as the vine foliage covers it up.

The authors talk about how in the church today, far too often a great deal of emphasis is placed on all the supporting programs, and too little on Christ and the real function of the church - making disciples (and, I would add, building up one another in love).  People get way too caught up in all the complex management of all the supporting programs and business affairs, and largely ignore the main thing - or leave it to a small group of people.  To me, that then makes that church more of a good human organization/institution, rather than a living organism in Christ.

Again, I'm just starting in this book - has anyone else read it and/or have thoughts about this?

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

A brother loaned me a book that I just started to read called, "The Trellis and the Vine" by Marshall & Payne. The premise of the book is fascinating to me, in that it conveys that the church is typified by a vine, and vines need a trellis to support them (at least fruit-bearing vines like grapes).  The trellis typifies the supporting structures like the leadership, administrations, property maintenance, and running other supporting programs.  The authors present their opinion that the structure of the church can, and very often does, become a big distraction . . . in other words, the "trellis work" pretty much takes over.

A grape vine needs a trellis structure to keep it off the ground and give it good spacing, in order to be healthy. We can have a very fancy looking trellis or a basic one, but the main thing is that the trellis supports the vine growth effectively, and should mostly be in the background.  In fact, the appearance of the trellis means little, as the main thing is the vine and its health/proper growth to bear fruit.  And if the vine is growing well, often the trellis isn't hardly visible, as the vine foliage covers it up.

The authors talk about how in the church today, far too often a great deal of emphasis is placed on all the supporting programs, and too little on Christ and the real function of the church - making disciples (and, I would add, building up one another in love).  People get way too caught up in all the complex management of all the supporting programs and business affairs, and largely ignore the main thing - or leave it to a small group of people.  To me, that then makes that church more of a good human organization/institution, rather than a living organism in Christ.

Again, I'm just starting in this book - has anyone else read it and/or have thoughts about this?

The analogy described above is useful but has it's limitations. The purpose of the vine metaphor is to teach the importance of being connected to Christ in order to thrive and produce fruit, and to warn of the consequences of not being connected to Christ. As the Gardener our Heavenly Father provides for the True Vine in every way, so that does allow Him to raise up support for It.

Yes, the discussion about the overkill of admin structures and programs is not new but does warrant fresh observation and perspective. 

Thanks for tapping into the subject, as it is an area I have explored in depth. 👍

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

A brother loaned me a book that I just started to read called, "The Trellis and the Vine" by Marshall & Payne. The premise of the book is fascinating to me, in that it conveys that the church is typified by a vine, and vines need a trellis to support them (at least fruit-bearing vines like grapes).  The trellis typifies the supporting structures like the leadership, administrations, property maintenance, and running other supporting programs.  The authors present their opinion that the structure of the church can, and very often does, become a big distraction . . . in other words, the "trellis work" pretty much takes over.

A grape vine needs a trellis structure to keep it off the ground and give it good spacing, in order to be healthy. We can have a very fancy looking trellis or a basic one, but the main thing is that the trellis supports the vine growth effectively, and should mostly be in the background.  In fact, the appearance of the trellis means little, as the main thing is the vine and its health/proper growth to bear fruit.  And if the vine is growing well, often the trellis isn't hardly visible, as the vine foliage covers it up.

The authors talk about how in the church today, far too often a great deal of emphasis is placed on all the supporting programs, and too little on Christ and the real function of the church - making disciples (and, I would add, building up one another in love).  People get way too caught up in all the complex management of all the supporting programs and business affairs, and largely ignore the main thing - or leave it to a small group of people.  To me, that then makes that church more of a good human organization/institution, rather than a living organism in Christ.

Again, I'm just starting in this book - has anyone else read it and/or have thoughts about this?

Hi VA,

Yes, the structure has become the focus. Even the wording in many places can be exclusive - join the team, this is God`s house, etc. Then to have the best structure to bring in the people - lighting, sound, seating, multi-media, musicians, etc etc.

Even by our own words `this is THE CHURCH` has caused a `battle` for the people on the seats. Meaning that anything else is NOT THE CHURCH, and you are backsliding if you don`t do as we do. 

As my dear friend says when people ask her why doesn`t she go to `CHURCH?` She says, `I have just cut out the middle man.` 

 

[Vine Abider]

34 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

As my dear friend says when people ask her why doesn`t she go to `CHURCH?` She says, `I have just cut out the middle man.` 

 

That's too bad . . . yes, men's programs, marketing and organization is unfortunately what people taste when they "go to church" oftentimes. That is, instead of tasting something of Christ living in and through His members - the Vine fruit and not just the trellis, to put it in the vernacular of this book.

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

A grape vine needs a trellis structure to keep it off the ground and give it good spacing, in order to be healthy. We can have a very fancy looking trellis or a basic one, but the main thing is that the trellis supports the vine growth effectively, and should mostly be in the background

 

Typical producing vineyards; No trellis, only bare wire/cord. Not for show, but fruit producing...

 

 

 

 

Fruit bearing branches, and no visible 'trellis' save the wire/post.

 

A wire and water, sunshine and soil. And much fruit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

I used to go picking grapes years ago when I lived in that region, (in OZ). We were paid $5.00 a 100 dip tins. That was in the `70`s. I did it on the week-ends as I was a school teacher during the week. 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

That's too bad . . . yes, men's programs, marketing and organization is unfortunately what people taste when they "go to church" oftentimes. That is, instead of tasting something of Christ living in and through His members - the Vine fruit and not just the trellis, to put it in the vernacular of this book.

Sometimes we think the Holy Spirit can`t organize believers to come together. In our region the Lord has brought a few together and then they reach out to others and so on. We help each other in our daily lives and also for the needs of those around. 

[Marathoner]

It would be good to reiterate that the Body of Christ is the temple of the Lord raised without human hands, for God is not served by human hands (Acts 17). What are we? Living stones and a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2), my friends. 

Seeing as how the Lord has no need of our voices to speak for Him, nor our hands to fashion objects that represent Him, our focus are those works we were created in Him to walk in. We can serve anywhere on this earth, and this includes in the churches. If that is where the Lord sends His beloved, then that is where they should go.

It's simple, yes? It is indeed.

[Marilyn C]

8 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

It would be good to reiterate that the Body of Christ is the temple of the Lord raised without human hands, for God is not served by human hands (Acts 17). What are we? Living stones and a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2), my friends. 

Seeing as how the Lord has no need of our voices to speak for Him, nor our hands to fashion objects that represent Him, our focus are those works we were created in Him to walk in. We can serve anywhere on this earth, and this includes in the churches. If that is where the Lord sends His beloved, then that is where they should go.

It's simple, yes? It is indeed.

Great thought there Marathoner - We can serve anywhere on this earth,

[Vine Abider]

16 hours ago, Sower said:

 

Typical producing vineyards; No trellis, only bare wire/cord. Not for show, but fruit producing...

 

 

 

 

Fruit bearing branches, and no visible 'trellis' save the wire/post.

 

A wire and water, sunshine and soil. And much fruit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're up in Arizona wine country for a few days and that's exactly what we're seeing up here!  The trellis is quite functional, yet simple. It's purpose is not to be seen, but to support the vine.

I'm thinking this is similar to what Paul says about bodily exercise - it profits a little.  That is, we should take care of our bodies, but only as for the purpose of carrying our soul and spirit where we need to go.  Too much focus on it is really just vain "window dressing."