Revenge

[nebula]

10 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Proverbs 3:5-6. 

That doesn't answer what forgiveness looks like.

[farouk]

13 minutes ago, nebula said:

Here's another case.

A family or other relation that you can't get away from, you have to keep interreacting with. 

The person is a narcissist. You've suffered gas lighting, blame shifting, manipulation, being lied about, on top of breaking your heart over and over again, while all the while the person is a word-crafter and butter couldn't melt in their mouth, along with being a very skilled actor. 

This isn't going away, and the recipient is in a place of being stuck with this continual onslaught. 

What does forgiveness look like in a case like in the midst of this kind of ongoing abuse, terror, heartache, and destruction?

Hi @nebula

The Lord Jesus promised tribulation for His people, but He has overcome the world: John 16.33.

The believer needs to keep 'looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the croos, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God' (Hebrews 12.2).

[BornAgain490]

13 minutes ago, nebula said:

That doesn't answer what forgiveness looks like.

It does answer what forgiveness looks like when you understand that it is the Lord that guides us on every path, including the path of forgiveness. All we must do is stay on the paths on which God had guided us. 

[BornAgain490]

23 minutes ago, nebula said:

That doesn't answer what forgiveness looks like.

If you have a minute, please read this short article.  This is what forgiveness looks like. 

• The Test of Forgiveness: Corrie ten Boom

by Eric MetaxasWomen

 

Corrie ten Boom, arrested for hiding Dutch Jews from the Nazis, survived the horrors of a concentration camp to astonish the world by forgiving her tormentors. Enjoy this excerpt and be exhorted to forgive as Corrie did.

Each had something to forgive, whether it was a neighbor who had turned him in to the Nazi authorities or a vicious camp guard or a brutal soldier.

In mid-May 1945 the Allies marched into Holland, to the unspeakable joy of the Dutch people. Despite the distractions of her work, Corrie was still restless, and she desperately missed her beloved Betsie. But now she remembered Betsie’s words: that they must tell others what they had learned.

Thus began more than three decades of travel around the world as a “tramp for the Lord,” as Corrie described herself. She told people her story, of God’s forgiveness of sins, and of the need for people to forgive those who had harmed them.

Corrie herself was put to the test in 1947 while speaking in a Munich church. At the close of the service, a balding man in a gray overcoat stepped forward to greet her. Corrie froze. She knew this man well; he’d been one of the most vicious guards at Ravensbrück, one who had mocked the women prisoners as they showered. “It came back with a rush,” she wrote, “the huge room with its harsh overhead lights; the pathetic pile of dresses and shoes in the center of the floor; the shame of walking naked past this man.”

And now he was pushing his hand out to shake hers, and saying:

“A fine message, Fraulein! How good it is to know that, as you say, all our sins are at the bottom of the sea!”

And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course — how could he remember one prisoner among those thousands of women?

But I remembered him and the leather crop swinging from his belt. I was face to face with one of my captors, and my blood seemed to freeze.

“You mentioned Ravensbrück in your talk,” he was saying. “I was a guard there… But since that time,” he went on, “I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fraulein” — again the hand came out —“will you forgive me?”

And I stood there — I whose sins had again and again to be forgiven — and could not forgive. Betsie had died in that place — could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking?

The soldier stood there expectantly, waiting for Corrie to shake his hand. She “wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do. For I had to do it — I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us.”

Standing there before the former S.S. man, Corrie remembered that forgiveness is an act of the will — not an emotion. “Jesus, help me!” she prayed. “I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.”

Corrie thrust out her hand.

And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.

“I forgive you, brother!” I cried. “With all my heart.”

For a long moment we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely as I did then. But even so, I realized it was not my love. I had tried, and did not have the power. It was the power of the Holy Spirit.

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[farouk]

5 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

If you have a minute, please read this short article.  This is what forgiveness looks like. 

• The Test of Forgiveness: Corrie ten Boom

by Eric MetaxasWomen

 

Corrie ten Boom, arrested for hiding Dutch Jews from the Nazis, survived the horrors of a concentration camp to astonish the world by forgiving her tormentors. Enjoy this excerpt and be exhorted to forgive as Corrie did.

Each had something to forgive, whether it was a neighbor who had turned him in to the Nazi authorities or a vicious camp guard or a brutal soldier.

In mid-May 1945 the Allies marched into Holland, to the unspeakable joy of the Dutch people. Despite the distractions of her work, Corrie was still restless, and she desperately missed her beloved Betsie. But now she remembered Betsie’s words: that they must tell others what they had learned.

Thus began more than three decades of travel around the world as a “tramp for the Lord,” as Corrie described herself. She told people her story, of God’s forgiveness of sins, and of the need for people to forgive those who had harmed them.

Corrie herself was put to the test in 1947 while speaking in a Munich church. At the close of the service, a balding man in a gray overcoat stepped forward to greet her. Corrie froze. She knew this man well; he’d been one of the most vicious guards at Ravensbrück, one who had mocked the women prisoners as they showered. “It came back with a rush,” she wrote, “the huge room with its harsh overhead lights; the pathetic pile of dresses and shoes in the center of the floor; the shame of walking naked past this man.”

And now he was pushing his hand out to shake hers, and saying:

“A fine message, Fraulein! How good it is to know that, as you say, all our sins are at the bottom of the sea!”

And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course — how could he remember one prisoner among those thousands of women?

But I remembered him and the leather crop swinging from his belt. I was face to face with one of my captors, and my blood seemed to freeze.

“You mentioned Ravensbrück in your talk,” he was saying. “I was a guard there… But since that time,” he went on, “I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fraulein” — again the hand came out —“will you forgive me?”

And I stood there — I whose sins had again and again to be forgiven — and could not forgive. Betsie had died in that place — could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking?

The soldier stood there expectantly, waiting for Corrie to shake his hand. She “wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do. For I had to do it — I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us.”

Standing there before the former S.S. man, Corrie remembered that forgiveness is an act of the will — not an emotion. “Jesus, help me!” she prayed. “I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.”

Corrie thrust out her hand.

And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.

“I forgive you, brother!” I cried. “With all my heart.”

For a long moment we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely as I did then. But even so, I realized it was not my love. I had tried, and did not have the power. It was the power of the Holy Spirit.

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@BornAgain490 A moving, instructive story, indeed.........

[missmuffet]

4 hours ago, nebula said:

Forgiving the past is one thing. 

Stuck in a situation is another. 

Such as - a divorced spouse who has custody of the children but is denying the other spouse their visitation rights (and this spouse doesn't have the money to go to court to sue for contempt). Do you tell this spouse just forgive and be content?

A spouse can't deny vistitation rights unless there is a very good reason. The law is

behind that person. There are legal resources out there who can help someone

with legal child custody problems and not charge them money.

You pray for this person and the situation you are in. Give it to God.

[farouk]

15 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You pray for this person and the situation you are in. Give it to God.

Seems like a lot of ppl in sad situations want to go to law fast, while prayer is the least of their concerns..........

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, farouk said:

Seems like a lot of ppl in sad situations want to go to law fast, while prayer is the least of their concerns..........

A Christian should always turn to God and pray about a situation first before they

do anything else. Pray for guidance and direction.

[MomBearTo4]

On 11/19/2024 at 3:06 AM, nebula said:

I'm just trying to figure out forgiveness when just saying no is not enough to protect yourself, when you have to get tough.

It's like I commented earlier:

The teaching on forgiveness has a couple of monkey wrenches.

When forgiveness enables an abuser to keep abusing, because the abusee needs "to forgive."

When people who do evil and don't repent get left off the hook in the name of "forgiveness."

According to Scripture, forgiveness is leaving the person to be judged by God for their sin.   Reconciliation is a different issue. 

An alcoholic who has cirrhosis of the liver due to their alcoholism who repents and is forgiven is not instantly healed of their cirrhosis; they still have to live with the consequences of their sin.  

Not leaving yourself vulnerable to being repeatedly victimized by someone who has an unrepentant pattern of victimizing you is not being unforgiving.   It's being wise. 

 

[MomBearTo4]

On 11/21/2024 at 8:27 AM, nebula said:

Here's another case.

A family or other relation that you can't get away from, you have to keep interreacting with. 

The person is a narcissist. You've suffered gas lighting, blame shifting, manipulation, being lied about, on top of breaking your heart over and over again, while all the while the person is a word-crafter and butter couldn't melt in their mouth, along with being a very skilled actor. 

This isn't going away, and the recipient is in a place of being stuck with this continual onslaught. 

What does forgiveness look like in a case like in the midst of this kind of ongoing abuse, terror, heartache, and destruction?

In my case, I silently cut ties with the person when they had effectively 100% boxed me out of being able to do anything with them because of their demands on how I speak and act when I was going with them somewhere.  

But I feel compassion toward them, knowing what their life situation is and thanking the Lord that I in my circumstances didn't end up bitter and resentful like they are.